MORE Radio discussion of Dennis Lindberg: His Dad speaks up!

by Nathan Natas 19 Replies latest watchtower medical

nelly136

http://blogs.king5.com/archives/2007/11/a_matter_of_fai.html#comment-2083608
quite an intersting discussion on here including people who may have had a closer look see on what went on
in the hospital.
Nathan Natas

Thank you Nelly!
That Nathan Knott guy is one smart cookie, eh?
nelly136

nathans kickin arse fer sure fer sure :)
that debbie needs to work on her gramma and spellin tho
Junction-Guy

Thanks for posting that link, I had every intention of posting my comments there, but it was so overwhelming, I have never seen a comments area that was so active. I scrolled down my screen for 5 minutes straight, and never could reach the bottom of the list.
nelly136

someone said on that link that they 'could talk about it now cos it wasnt sealed'
does that mean there is a public record of what went on in the court?
Tatiana

WOW.......so many comments! I just spent most of my day reading all of them. Nathan.......is all I can say! I would really like to know if the court records are unsealed. I'm sure we don't know the whole story. There are many of Dennis' "friends" posting on the blog, and the following offer some telling info! What I got out of it was that many of Dennis' NON-JW friends were there, and were not allowed to talk to him.

To all of you who really want to make a differance and put a stop to this insanity please contact your congressmen and state representatives to get the laws changed to protect these children from misinformation and becoming unwilling victims of the "spiritual family". Please lets not Dennis' death be in vain. He did not want to die; he was trapped and his freinds(who had been called "satan") could only watch in horror as an ill informed judge made a decision that sealed Dennis' fate. Dennis never had a chance after he went to hospital.

They had it all planned, they changed doctors until they found one who would honor their wishes then they got Dennis a "mature minor" classification so CPS would have a hard time interveining and finaly the monitored contact with Dennis (for his own good). Yes Dennis was made to be a martyr, but just maybe this can back fire on them if we put enough pressure on the elected officials.

Posted by: Gary Curry
Dennis is a very wise young man whom we have grown to love very much over the years. If I truly believed this decision was his own and not coerced, I would feel much more comfortable supporting him. As it stands, however, we will never truly know HOW Dennis feels.

Dennis' environment has been "patrolled" constantly since he was hospitalized and no one has been allowed to speak to him in ANY form without a church member present. This leads me to believe they are nervous about him saying the wrong thing. If his aunt is so sure this decision is his... let his friends and others who love him talk with him instead of refusing to let anyone near him or monitoring his every move.

Sadly enough, it will take death for this wonderful young man to realize the impact he's made on the hearts of those around him and I can assure you that when I hear a knock on my door next time and find Jehovah's Witnesses trying to "share the good news", I may just welcome them in and try and save them from themselves rather than ducking into the bathroom and pretending I'm not home.

Posted by: Friends of Dennis
Give me a break! If you grew up in the hell I and thousands of others like me grew up in with the JW's you'd be a little less tolerant yourself. This is abuse, plain and simple. No one should be tolerant of abuse or the killing of a child. They are experts at isolation and brainwashing. This is what they did to this young boy. They isolated him while he was in the hospital so no one "worldly" could speak any sense into the situation. They brainwashed this boy, plain and simple. It's what they do.

PLEASE, someone, an investigative reporter, someone in law enforcement, a judge, a politician, someone needs to look into what they are doing to these children. Myself and many many others who escaped this cult will do anything to help with an official investigation into this. We cannot let them get away with the killing of this child. Someone needs to stand up for him. I beckon all of you to write to the Judge who made this decision on the Skagit County Superior Court, the doctors who supported a 14 year old child's brainwashed choice to die, the JWs themselves with your outrage. Someone needs to do something about this!

Posted by: Brenda
There is an elephant in the room here that few people, certainly not the JWs, are seeing.

This boy DID NOT choose to die. He was forced. The JW blood ban is coercive, in several ways.

First, he was told that he would be shunned, expelled, probably kicked out of his home, if he ever disobeyed the strict JW laws. The facts are that about 70% of children raised as JWs (in the USA) DO leave the cult, but most do not do so until they are 16-18, because not only do they have to create a whole new social and support network, they also have to find a place to live. This boy died at an age where no one can be certain that he truly believed in JW dogma, that his decision was not in any way influenced by fear of finding himself thrown out on the street (with leukemia, no less).

Second: He never got a chance to hear opposing points of view. He was essentially guarded 24/7 by JW officials who prevented him from hearing any dissenting voices, and who almost certainly did not allow him to hear an honest appraisal of his medical condition and a realistic prognosis. They almost certainly told him that doctors are talking out their ass when they say he 'needed' blood, that his chances were in fact better without the blood transfusion. If this was his choice, if he was old enough to make up his own mind, then why deny him the information he needed to make a mature decision? Why did he need to be guarded, why were his contacts, letters, phone calls vetted by JW officials?

And yes, withholding necessary medical treatment, voluntarily, is much the same as withholding necessary food and water. It's criminal neglect, it's murder...

JWs walk a very fine line by continually trying to cast doubt on the efficacy of blood transfusions as a treatment, which allows them to make the claim that no one could have known with 100% certainty that the boy would die without a blood transfusion. They routinely accuse doctors of negligence for not administering blood substitutes (even though there are none that would have saved this boy's life). They routinely misrepresent scientific research, medical reports, misuse statistics to justify their position; not because they are convinced that blood is abhorrent to God (after all, they do accept 97% of whole blood, in component form), but because they are terrified of multi-million dollar lawsuits. They are afraid that if they begin to allow blood transfusions, the families of their thousands of victims will sue them and take every penny they have fleeced from their flock.

This boy was not a willing martyr. He was a human sacrifice, killed on the altar of greed.

Posted by: Kingsmeg | November 29, 2007 2:30 PM
Warlock

I have ZERO SYMPATHY for people who abandon their children, especially for their own addictions.
Period.
Warlock
nelly136

Thank you for commenting.
Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner.
looks like its on lockdown now
Tatiana

The blog is still active today. And I am still following this.
From what I've read so far, Dennis' "girlfriend," Morgan, was harassed by the school principal and her parents have written a formal complaint. Many people are writing the hospital and congress. This is not going to go away!

Do you want to know how Dennis' trusted non-JW adult friend was able to see him? She had to force her way in while her husband helped. Dennis did not say, "I" want to follow my faith - he said "MORE PEOPLE" want me to follow my faith. It's too bad the aunt discontinued his web site thru Caringbridge, I would encourage everyone to read the JW posts encouraging just this. Behind closed doors, at the hearing before the judge ruled (I can talk about this now because it was not sealed), Dennis' aunt slipped and said SHE cannot allow him to have a transfusion because it was against HER religion. She did not say "OUR or DENNIS'" religion. Finally, when Dennis said he trusted his doctor's and if all else failed he will consider a transfusion, he did not say he would fight it, pull out the IV's, etc. He just wanted someone to take care of him.
The doctors were going to transfuse him, Dennis trusted their medical judgment, and it wasn't until AFTER the aunt had petitioned the courts for emancipation (and lost) that she went back to the hospital administrators, once again, and begged for "mature minor" status. It was finally granted - in the aunt's own writing she said, "VICTORY!" [The hospital administrators have given Dennis this status], "I feel like a burden has been lifted off of my shoulders". Of course the burden was lifted, SHE didn't have to fight against the transfusion anymore. The towel was thrown to Dennis - he didn't have a chance. Choose transfusion and live, or follow the faith and the aunt's wishes who "rescued" him from his drug consumed parents. He knew he would be shunned from his family as well as his aunt. I know this because he told me this years ago when he "adopted" her religion.
I also know first hand that there were several times she threatened to return him to the state, that she "couldn't handle it anymore". But once he accepted JW and received "praise" for doing JW work, all was fine. So he knew too well that he would lose his family if he choose the transfusion. No child should EVER be put in this position. I don't care about the JW faith, I care that they are murdering children. Encouraging Children's Hospital's around the nation to stop providing "mature minor" status and fine tuning the law regarding this grey area 12-18 minor's choice of life or death the avenue that needs to be pursued. Otherwise there will always be these forms going on, arguing over children dying, and people like Owen who doesn't have a clue about the children involved but tries to "pretend" he does so he can protect a religion. Take religion out of this please, this is just about a child who didn't want to die, but didn't feel he had any other choice.

Posted by: Dennis' Friend

I don't mind telling the princpal's name of LaVenture Middle School: Dan Berard. Scuttle has it that the district may use him as the "fall guy" for this whole mess. My wife just completed her formal complaint letter that a school board member asked for - it does not paint a pretty picture, listed all the school district policies and procedures he violated. We are asking for both a private and public apology to Morgan, among other things. We'll see how it goes.
Ann, Dennis' aunt took over his care in 4th grade when his parents (her bother), due to meth addiction, couldn't care for him (dad wound up in jail for drugs during this time, mom disappeared). They did enter rehab after he left and have both been clean for 4 years (minor mishaps along the way, but nothing major). They were going to move here to be closer to him, but due to their past they new they would not get him back. The aunt gained full custody this past January. They made mistakes, but still loved him. He visited them this past summer for several weeks with his grandmother from FL.
I'll check into this doctor - one of the doctors in the "hearing" with the judge (via phone -can't rememmber name)asked if he allowed mature minor status & discontinued treatment in the past for 14 yr olds - this doctor replied "yes", similar age, similar illness, similar religion BUT then told the judge "I also feel I made mistakes by doing this." The judge ignored this comment obviously. There were other doctors involved, his aunt kept going to a different doctor until she found one that supported her. Diekema must be the one she found - but thought he had a female doctor in the end. So many came and went though.
Neither parent were in the original "hearing", but we were all in the courtroom with King 5 news when the judge said "no transfusion", his parents with their attorney's were asking for a transfuaion.
Spent time with both of them and Dennis' grandmother from FL when Morgan put his memorial service together. Morgan is establishing a relationship with his grandmother, who - before flying in for the service, changed her will to remove her daughter (Dennis' aunt), subsequently losing her only 2 grandchildren in the process. Yep, she was telling everyone while she was here that the JW's "murdered" her grandson - and on King 5 news. Good for her.
Posted by: Gary Curry | December 29, 2007 1:06 PM
I've also learned that "Nathan Knott guy is one smart cookie, eh?" But, I knew that already.
Tatiana

Best quote so far.....
The Watchtower is Jonestown in slow motion.
edited to add link once more.....
http://blogs.king5.com/archives/2007/11/a_matter_of_fai.html#comment-2083608

MORE Radio discussion of Dennis Lindberg: His Dad speaks up!

Thank you for commenting.

Share this