by pratt1 24 Replies latest jw experiences
TD:
In the U.S. no organization can openly forbid their members from joining the military. That would arguably be a violation of U.S. Code Title 18, Section 2387 (i.e. Treason)
Thank you for providing that definitive information.
Could you perhaps c/p that section of the Code? I'd be interested to actually read it.
Why doesn't someone bring a suit this is a clear case of treason then. If you don't say you want to leave JW's they can not say you left in absentia (hence begin the shunning) without breaking this law lest by the action of shunning forbid a member from joining the military. They can't hide behind protecting the group from something. Their only defence would be we don't want more of young people doing a service to this country and protecting the right of free religion we hide behind all the time.
Hell the shunning thing is a clear case character defamation alone.
I was going from memory. It's actually the very next section, 2388
2388. Activities affecting armed forces during war
(a) Whoever, when the United States is at war, willfully makes or conveys false reports or false statements with intent to interfere with the operation or success of the military or naval forces of the United States or to promote the success of its enemies; or Whoever, when the United States is at war, willfully causes or attempts to cause insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces of the United States, or willfully obstructs the recruiting or enlistment service of the United States, to the injury of the service or the United States, or attempts to do so— Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
Joining a church
Joining the military
Having a blood transfusion
You can add "smoking" to that list too.
I strongly suspect that the reason the WTS has changed the wording of their announcements - leaving out whether So-and-so is Disfellowshipped™ or Disassociated™ - is that they are moving in the direction of creating a situation whereby any voluntary behaviour that is contraindicated in the JW belief system will be construed as a person's decision to no longer be "one of Jehovah's Witnesses". It will run the gamut from sending Christmas cards to smoking, to joining the military, to accepting a blood transfusion, to joining the local YMCA to use the swimming pool, or looking at p0rn online, and keeps the way open for them to add any kind of behaviour they wish to the list of offenses. I'm guessing that eventually they may even view associating with ex-JW family members as a voluntary Disassociation™.
Welcome to 1984.
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.
Another piece of related trivia concerns Rutherford & Co.
JW publications often mention that these men were tried and imprisoned under the Espionage Act of 1917. The general impression conveyed is that they were falsely accused of being spies, which strikes JW's as farfetched and unjust. (JW publications also sometimes claim that they were later exonerated, which is untrue)
The truth is, they were specifically charged under Title 1, Section 3 of the Act.
Section 3
Whoever, when the United States is at war, shall wilfully make or convey false reports or false statements with intent to interfere with the operation or success of the military or naval forces of the United States or to promote the success of its enemies and whoever when the United States is at war, shall wilfully cause or attempt to cause insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces of the United States, or shall wilfully obstruct the recruiting or enlistment service of the United States, to the injury of the service or of the United States, shall be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000 or imprisonment for not more than twenty years, or both.
Thanks, everyone for your comments.
I was wondering why the Dubs view working for the armed forces as a civilian differently than being a soldier?
Is it because as a soldier you take an oath of allegience?
What about medical personnel or other professionals deployed in war areas?
They technically don't carry weapons and are not expected to engage in fighting, aren't these people no different from the dub who works on the army base as a cook, secretary etc...
I know of a pioneer and elders daughter who works on an Army base is a cook.
She is in good standing in the congo.
The elders book "Shepherding the Flock........" said this in my copy that I took in the late 90's
Unit 5 , page 101
If an individual takes a course contrary to the neutral position of the Christian congregation , the congregation is compelled to view him as one who has chosen to separate from us.(Isaiah 2.4 & John 15.17 -19)
The topic is Disassociation
I am surprised at the experience relatetd by pratt1, perhaps nothing should surprise me any more....?
I have always thought that this still applied
w73 7/1 p. 411 Conscientious in Doing Good Toward All
"***Is making weapons for destruction consistent with doing good toward all? Would your conscience permit you to share in producing weaponry?
A man employed by a firm in the United States devoted to producing war components was troubled by this question when he began studying the Bible. "As I continued to study," he explained, "I kept thinking that if someone were to ask me where I worked, how could I tell him I loved my neighbor when I have a part in producing things to hurt others?" So he quit his good-paying job, and found other employment.
Many others have done similarly. A maintenance supervisor on a military installation in Albany, Georgia, found other work because he realized that if he wanted to be a follower of Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace, he could no longer be associated with war preparations. (Isa. 2:2-4; 9:6, 7) And a man at Robbins Air Force Base also quit for like reasons. "I now do maintenance work elsewhere and receive about half what I used to make," he notes."
One might argue that preparing food for soldiers is different from producing weapons. Weapons serve only one purpose. Soldiers are people and would eat whether they were in the military or not. Also, anyone who prepares food in a restaurant might unwittingly prepare food for a soldier.
*** w93 8/1 p. 23 Jehovah, My Confidence From Youth On ***Our finances were low when we reached India, and finding employment was not easy. This resulted in a test of faith. I met a British officer who offered me a lucrative noncombatant job, but it involved serving as part of the military establishment. With Jehovah’s help, I was able to turn down the offer and thus keep a clear Christian conscience. (Isaiah 2:2-4) In other ways too, we felt the loving hand of Jehovah.
I had 2 family members who had to quit their civilian jobs with the military. I wonder if there is "new light" on this with the civilian employment change in doctrine?*** w68 8/1 p. 455 Keeping Abreast with Jehovah’s Organization ***That organization has ever been a moving, progressive organization. Progress naturally means instruction, changes and corrections. As a result there have been increased and improved understanding of Jehovah’s will and purposes and a widening out of activity; as in the days of the apostles so in our day. For example, in 1938 God’s people saw the need of being not democratic but fully theocratic in organization.—Isa. 60:17.
Since then God’s people have obtained a better understanding of many teachings, such as regarding the resurrection. They also understand better many Bible principles and requirements, such as the need to keep wholly separate from the military and religious parts of Satan’s organization even in employment.
In the 1960s, my childhood congo's elders weren't even happy about non-military government employment. They pressured my oldest brother into quitting a full-time job with the Postal Service when he was in his early 20s. It was suggested that his employment with the government was the reason he hadn't been offered certain "privileges" in the congregation. He never had another job that good again -- and he still wasn't offered those "privileges" for a decade or two after he quit USPS. Meanwhile, the elders stopped bugging people about working for the government.
My brother's not bitter (he's convinced himself that the decision was entirely his), but I am.
