John The Baptist. More than a Prophet?

by Steve J 33 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  JosephMalik

  Islam is a peaceful religion, so I can't see how you can call it destructive.

  Steve J,

  I get tired of hearing this propaganda. Verse after verse was read from the Quran to them at a conference in Washington State headed by Richard Rawe. They could not respond to someone that really knows what it teaches. This silenced them. Did you think that Jihad is some sort of aberration? Tapes of this encounter may still be available from him.

  You said: In some ways I think atheists are far more reasonable people than any who profess to belong to a religion, as when you take God and the Devil out of the equation it makes us all more responsible for our own actions,

  The Faith makes us responsible for our own actions. That is what it teaches point blank. So you have no argument here. The state of confusion and ignorance you experienced in the WT can be found in just about every denomination professing Christianity. So a forum like this is helpful to those breaking away from them. You will not find such ones practicing the Faith dangerous as the terrorists you insist on comparing them to. Perhaps the problem is closer to home.

  Joseph
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  Steve J

  Hi Joseph,

  Sorry, but I haven't heard about the conference you mentioned, or Richard Rawe, but would be interested in hearing the tapes.

  My brief experience and undersatnding of Islam and Qur'an was very different to your impressions though and to my surprise I found they regard the Bible as sacred. Qur'an, they believe is supplementary and refers to earlier prophets, many of which are mentioned in the Bible. Qur'an also stresses that all of the prophets preached the same message an Muslims should believe them all, without distinction between them.

  The Messenger believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, as do the faithful. They all believe in God, His angels, His scriptures and His messengers. 'We make no distinction between any of His messengers,' they say, 'We hear and obey...' (Qur'an The Cow, 2:285)

  True Muslims must obviously believe Jesus the Great Prophet and take note of the beautiful message he taught at his arrest in the Garden of Gethsemane, as well as the warning; "All those who live by the sword will die by the sword."

  They believe that Allah has honoured the Children of Adam and as all humans are his children, all must be treated with honor, respect and regard, without distinction of any kind, such as their colour, race, line of descent, social background, national origin, gender, age, language, religion, or any other status.

  The problem is, not all Muslims abide by the teachings of their faith, but then we could say the same for most Christians, couldn't we?

  As far as Jihad is concerned, the word means to strive, toil, or labour to the power and extent of ones endeavours or energy against tyranny, injustice, transgressions and the Devil. Jihad against the Kufaar, or those who expel the Messenger and his followers from their homes is not with the sword, but with the message of Qur'an (Qur'an, The Differentiator,25:52)

  I found the following website interesting www.quranicteachings.co.uk as it explains the basic principles of Qur'an.

  I really can't believe that I'm defending Islam here, as I believe all organized religions tend to feed their followers with their hierarchy's thoughts rather than the words of the Bible, or any other Holy Book come to that, JW's included.

  The Faith makes us responsible for our own actions. That is what it teaches point blank. So you have no argument here. The state of confusion and ignorance you experienced in the WT can be found in just about every denomination professing Christianity.

  Agreed, but blind faith puts others in control of our minds and quite possibly our actions too, and that is my basic argument. We all need to examine what we believe constantly. Moreso if you belong to a religion, as its all too easy to become unreasonable and follow the teachings of men rather than finding our own way. I have been accused in the past of trying to undermine a persons faith with my beliefs and I remember thinking if I can undermine their faith, then it couldn't have been that firm in the first palce.

  When I was with the JW's I could never understand why they were so affraid of "apostate" literature and believed that if you calim to have the "truth," you sholdn't be affraid to defend it, or have it questioned as that would surely make your faith stronger. The trouble is, if you haven't got the truth, it might very well be undermined and that's why JW's are so worried about it.

  So a forum like this is helpful to those breaking away from them. You will not find such ones practicing the Faith dangerous as the terrorists you insist on comparing them to. Perhaps the problem is closer to home.

  I find the forum very helpful and its already answered a number of my questions, but sorry Joseph, you must have misunderstood me. Maybe I didn't put it very well, but I wasn't comapring anyone to terrorists. All I was trying to get accross was that if you just blindly believe what you are told, without making it your own, (now where have I heard that before) you satnd the chance of becoming unreasonable and are then easy prey to those who manipulate the mind. That's just what the terrorists have let happen to them and that's why I said faith is dangerous. Agreed, I should have said; BLIND FAITH IS DANGEROUS.

  Steve J
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  JosephMalik

  True Muslims must obviously believe Jesus the Great Prophet and take note of the beautiful message he taught at his arrest in the Garden of Gethsemane, as well as the warning; "All those who live by the sword will die by the sword."

  Steve J,

  Am I to believe there are just a few bad apples here we must deal with? And not one word of why someone calling a teddy bear Mohammed causes thousands of the (good ones) to pick up their swords and try and kill them for it? Conceal the reality with the deception. Support what is bad and vilify the Faith in every post you can get away with. Cause those seeking goodness and truth to doubt what they have experienced and see with their own eyes. Avoid any verse that does not support this effort. Plead ignorance or non involvement when things heat up. I noticed this early on. Is this what we should do? Will it go on and on like this? I wanted others to see it Steve. But I know that: Lu 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. And the Muslims for one have spoken. So have the ones that support or say nothing against such evil.

  Joseph
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  hmike

  1. John was said to be filled with the Holy Spirit from birth (or from his mother's womb). He was influenced by the Spirit his entire life! No sinful baggage to deter him. He was single-minded and devoted. This would make him as close to being like Christ as would be possible at that time. I don't think this was said of any other mortal.

  2. As Joseph M. pointed out, he was, nevertheless, mortal. One in the Kingdom would be immortal.

  3. John was a transition from old to new. He preached a "baptism of repentence for the forgiveness of sins." He didn't send people to the Temple to make sacrifices. He bypassed the priests.

  4. My personal thinking about John's role is that God impressed people to come to John for baptism. It was a calling to all who would listen. The people that responded were those who humbled themselves. The religious leaders did not come to John. Thus, the separation had begun. Those who came to John had the humility to accept Jesus as the Chosen One, the Son of David. Humility was necessary for righteousness. So why did Jesus come to John for baptism? He had no sins to confess, but he did so in response to the general call of the Father and leading of the Spirit.

  5. I've always understood the word "violent" as being too strong, like the way "hate" is used. Could we substitute "assertive" for "violent"? Entering the Kingdom requires an act of will, a choice and action. It's like a prize you have to fight for.