Self Deceit and Faith.

by hillary_step 208 Replies latest jw friends

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  tijkmo

  Archaeopteryx feathers, although less documented than its other features, were similar in structure and design to modern-day bird feathers

  when it says less documented does that mean that there are in fact examples of prehistoric feathers in existence..i mean in tact, complete, and not just skeletons and/or fossils.

  because if not, surely the latter half of that statement becomes more a matter of faith than evidence.

  which ergo would mean that were it not true would be self-deceit

  which is fine if that works for you.

  you know..whatever floats ya boat - or burns ya ship (see what i did there)
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  darkuncle29

  Thank you for posting these questions HS. Leolaia, I'm still trying to wrap my brain cells around your second post, I think I smell something burning.
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  Witness 007

  Isnt everyone decieving themselves....when they died people have seen God, Buddah, Allah and a bunch of of other diety's ....fear of death and the unknown cause us to invent God and the after-life.
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  LouBelle

  But what if you don't fear death and have made peace with the unknown?
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  hillary_step

  Darkuncle,

  Thank you for posting these questions HS. Leolaia, I'm still trying to wrap my brain cells around your second post, I think I smell something burning.

  lol.... I am actually running Leo's post through my Klingon translator at the moment. Actually she makes some very interesting points which I am going to comment on shortly. Deputy,

  Science and faith are in unison until faith becomes unmmeasurable.

  You mean when science becomes "unmmeasurable".

  Science is about measurement and requires evidence. It may hypothesize a future conclusion based on present fact, but it cannot describe this hypothesis as proven until it becomes so by measurement. For example, an astronomer may through mathematical calculation hypothesize the existance of an unseen planet. Until that planet is seen it remains an hypothesis. One might claim that he has faith that this planet exists, but this would be a mistake. What he has is much more than faith, he has a hypothesized measurement which can be traced, retraced and tested by other astronomers. Where religious faith is concerned there is no such measurement available. A persons inner conviction, as Leo notes is all the measurement that can be given. I posit that this is self-deception, though vastly preferable to crackpot "creationists" thinking they actually have measurable evidence for their theological viewpoints. My wife for example is a believer and I envy her this. But she makes no pretentious notions as to being able to prove her beliefs. Her view is that "I have no proof that I can offer but I have faith and I believe". Good luck to her. HS
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  BurnTheShips

  Good Morning HS

  Those that have been brave enough to answer the question BA and BurnTheShips have provided the following answers, both of which I am sure you will agree are logically flawed:

  I would appreciate an explanation as to how my response was logically flawed.

  BurnTheShips, as ever the more honest of the two is prepared to comment, as usual without explanation as to why he believes that those who adhere to a god not of his making are "up to a point" self-deceived.

  I intended my italicized reference to the Pauline epistle to be an explanation.

  Sincerely,

  Burn
• 

  BurnTheShips

  This is a mind-expanding thread.

  I nominate it for "best of". Thanks to all (and no I will be sticking around).

  Humbly,

  Burn
• 

  BurnTheShips

  faith allows me to drive to work, assuming other drivers will stay on their side of the road. Faith assures me that adhesion and cohesion will continue tomorrow and that phototaxis will be around too. Faith inculcates in me the confidence that water will continue to seek its own level, that grease will lubricate, that heat will coagulate protein. Faith is a part of all my reasoning processes. Faith it the foundation of deductive and inductive analysis. Faith is the balance that meters emotion with reason. I have faith this will engender. carmel of the "faithful"

  Yes! Life is full of assumptions, as Leo pointed out. Burn
• 

  serotonin_wraith

  tijkmo,

  when it says less documented does that mean that there are in fact examples of prehistoric feathers in existence..i mean in tact, complete, and not just skeletons and/or fossils.

  Okay, this is like asking if any dinosaur flesh has been found. It's not a common occurence, because it doesn't normally last that long. It rots. What we have are impressions of the feathers left in rocks. Like this:

  

  Even the bones we find aren't actually the original bones.

  "After a long time, the chemicals in the buried animals' bodies underwent a series of changes. As the bone slowly decayed, water infused with minerals seeped into the bone and replaced the chemicals in the bone with rock-like minerals. The process of fossilization involves the dissolving and replacement of the original minerals in the object with other minerals

  This process results in a heavy, rock-like copy of the original object - a fossil. The fossil has the same shape as the original object, but is chemically more like a rock!"

  Fossilization is extremely rare, circumstances have to be just right. More on that (and the above quote taken from) here:

  http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/dinosaurs/dinofossils/Fossilhow.html

  So it's not a matter of faith, any more than finding the footprint of a shoe in the mud and wondering if a shoe made it.
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  BurnTheShips