How does WT treat illegal Mexican immigrant JWs?

by skeeter1 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  skeeter1

  How does the WT treat illegal Mexicans who are also Jehovah's Witnesses? If the Mexican was a publisher or pioneer in Mexico, does the Society allow them to be full, fledged publishers or pioneers here in the United States? Skeeter
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  Abandoned

  I don't know about pioneering or other "priviliges" but they definitely can be publishers.
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  4mylove

  I posted a while back that my hubby had made a statement:

  "....He decided to become a citizen because he did not want to come back to this country as an illegal after he became a witness...he knew that was wrong..." to which I responded, "...isn't that how he got here in the first place?!..."

  just my 2 cents.

  4
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  OnTheWayOut

  I don't know of a written policy, but I do know that illegal immigrants can be
  publishers and pioneers.

  The actuality of the illegal status does affect their ability to be apointed as
  MS's and elders, but that depends on the congregation. Most use the
  "Don't ask" method of approaching them when they are considered for
  appointment, but expect them to avoid appointment if they are illegal.
  Some don't care the least bit about their legal status. Yet others will
  say, "If you are an illegal immigrant using any fraudulent identifications,
  you would of course refrain from accepting the assignment."

  Of course, Mother Borg has sent members into countries by means of
  fraud and they would be put in charge of things at some branch. But those
  were generally because the spirit directed such actions.
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  nvrgnbk

  They can be baptized publishers.

  The cannot have "special privileges" of a more official nature: regular pioneer, ministerial servant, elder, etc.

  From here it gets blurry though.

  They may be permitted to (LMAO!) handle tasks normally assigned to ministerial servants, without having the title.

  As for auxiliary pioneering, it is once again at the discretion of the BOE, as that is not a direct appointment coming from the CCoJW. In reality, however, the official answer to that would be a "no".

  Can a brother in this position take the lead in a meeting for field service?

  Can he offer prayer at a meeting held at the Kingdom Hall?

  Can he offer prayer at the Congregation Book Study held in someone's home?

  All depends on the BOE.

  I've seen it go any number of ways.

  Edit: An important point to add is that if the illegal has documented proof that they have an open case with Immigration, with a case number assigned, they may in fact be used. I believe there was a letter to the BOE's regarding this in years past. The point made was that such a brother was doing what "Caesar" required and was attempting to comply with the laws of the land and would not be considered a fugitive.
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  knock knock

  Are not persons that become legal US citizens required to take an oath of allegiance to the US? Would that not make an illegal JW eligible for due process of a WT judicial committee? Or is this just one of those little inconveniences that pop up now and then that have to be covered over? I see on wikipedia that the wording of the oath has not always been the same but that allegiance to the US is a constant. I've wondered this before but never asked anyone.
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  nvrgnbk

  Are not persons that become legal US citizens required to take an oath of allegiance to the US? Would that not make an illegal JW eligible for due process of a WT judicial committee? Or is this just one of those little inconveniences that pop up now and then that have to be covered over? I see on wikipedia that the wording of the oath has not always been the same but that allegiance to the US is a constant. I've wondered this before but never asked anyone.

  We're discussing legal residency, as opposed to citizenship, which goes a step beyond.

  You raise an interesting point, however, knock knock.

  As always, there are loopholes. LOL!

  But in one case I know of personally, the very literal-minded brother got in the agent's face with the neutrality issue, and was denied citizenship as a result. He did, however, maintain his status a a legal resident.
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  knock knock

  Thanks Nvr. I often miss the point and leapfrog onto something else. It's an old habit.
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  OnTheWayOut

  Knock Knock, if they want to become citizens, there is some provision for not swearing
  allegiance, but most JW's are advised to get their citizenship in a group and not to
  say the words, but to simply mouth them. Believe it or not.
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  onacruse

  nvr, the BOE letter to which you refer is dated November 6, 1995 (3 pages).

  I'll see if I can get somebody to help me out (again!) with getting the scans hosted to a server and posted up here (what I have is a .png file). It's quite an interesting read.

  edit to add: Doug Mason helped me the last time, but I hate to burden him, so if anybody else can help out, I'd be glad to forward the files accordingly.