What are apostates?

by mindfield 16 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  Bill Parker

  To Fed up!
  I guess that you are not the only one who is! First of all you would have to be able to read the heart in order to brand someone as an apostate. Do you know anyone today who has been empowered by Jehovah as the fist century christian were who can read the heart? If you look at Acts 5:1-11 you will see that the Apostle Peter was able to do that. Why? Because those early christians had the gifts of the spirit. We know those gifts came to an end. Recall the statement made by Jesus in John 7:24. He said "Do not judge accoprding to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" In order to follow that direction properly of necessity you would have to be able to read the heart. Look at Isaiah 11:1-3. The latter part of verse 3 says: "And he will not judge by what his eye's see,Nor make a decision by what his ears hear" Verse four sums it up nicely: "But with RIGHTEOUSNESS He will judge the poor, and decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth" ...1 Samuel 16:7 adds this in part: "for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance but Jehovah looks at the heart" So you see those judged as apostates today have been judged merely on the basis of what those in positions of authority see with their eyes and hear with their ears. That does not fulfill the divine requirments for judging. The judgment has been grossly unfair and not supported by Jehovah. Those who have been branded as apostates today just have to hang in. Eventually Jehovah will straighten it all out. I might add to the embarassment of those guilty of their unfair practice of judgment. None today who have been branded apostate by the Governing Body and their Elder arrangement are really apostate in Jehovah's eye's. They have not been dealt with fairly. Jehovah would never support that! When indivividuals are judged by Jehovah's appointed judge in His due time then those judged as apostates really will be such. But no man today can make that judgment call because no man today has been empowered by Jehovah to read the heart. If anyone thinks they can I got to meet that one. There are many behavioural problems today that cause people to speak and act in a manner that would appear to others as being very unchristian conduct. Those afflicted in this manner are not bad they are ill. Those in positions of authority are not medical practicioners they would not even recognize that these one's are ill. So how could their judgments be any where near accurate? Judas Iscariot was an apostate. He had the highest honor bestowed on him by Jehovah God. Immortal Life in the heavens could have been his.He knew who Jesus was. He was granted to understand the sacred secets of the Kingdom of heaven. Yet he betrayed his master Christ Jesus.Look at Hebrews 6:4-6 This applied to Judas Iscariot.He was "a partaker of the Holy Spirit" he "had once and for all been enlightened". That was a sin he could not repent of. If anyone has to ask "What is an apostate" he definitely could not be one. One who really was wouldn't give two hoots in hell one way or the other. Just keep trying to do your best that is all anyone can do who has been branded by those oppressive wolves. Sooner or later they will get what is coming to them. You know the old saying: "What goes around comes around." Bill Parker
• 

  crownboy

  Offically, an apostate by the bible's standard is one who does not stick to the basic framework of christain teaching. Since the JW's fancy themselves as THE only true Christain religion, they take this teaching to mean that anyone who doesn't agree with their interpretation of the bible (by virtue of their self proclaimed franchise on all doctrines Christain) as being apostate. According to the bible, apostates are probably the worse kind of sinners, hence the reason the Watchtower so castigates the ones they brand as such.

  You will often hear the Society say that "apostates tear down and don't build you up" or they only are out to destroy your faith. Any clear thinking person can see the falacy of such an argument. If your faith in something false is torn down, that does not mean the result is negative (in fact it's the direct opposite). Just because someone destroys your faith in Santa Claus, is that evil? The Society is essentially saying that living comfortably in a fantasy world is much better (in fact, more godly) than living uncomfortably in reality. I'm pretty sure most (sane) people would agree the above situation is akin to lunacy.

  A second point is that alot of times, ones faith in God is actually strenghtened by leaving the society. In a case like this, they're claims are even more clearly erroneous.

  Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!
• 

  Englishman

  Apostate, eh? Hmmm!

  Yesterday, I was happily replacing my next door neighbours windows whilst listening to the Jimmy Young programme on BBC Radio 2. Jimmy was interviewing some fundy Moslem, and asked him how he felt towards the many thousands of UK Moslems who saw their role as being one of giving, of fitting in, of caring for their fellow man. Guess what the fundy called those who wouldn't uproot and fight for the Taliban?

  I kid you not, he called them APOSTATES!

  Englishman.

  Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....
• 

  javagal

  Apostate is a word I have heard often the past few weeks. The elders when they came to find out why I haven't been attending meetings decided to tell me that I sounded like an apostate. This of course considerably upset my father (likewise an elder) and when he questioned them about it they told him that I was stating that my "worldly" friends have been better to me then the witnesses and that sounded like apostate talk. To me it sounds like the truth.
  What puzzles me is the fact that the society puts a heavier fine (as it were) on people that speak up about the organization. They immediately term them apostates. the most evil of the evil. However the ones that go against god's moral laws may be disfellowshipped if completely unrepentent. How is it that the WTS has become so much grander then Jehovah himself that they can judge so much heavier then he does. I agree with the point that Judas was an apostate and was evil there may be a few people like Judas but I have yet to talk to any. The people I have met on this board are just tired of the bs from the WTS and are intelligent enough to look for the answers where they lie in the BIBLE not the Watchtower. If looking to God's word instead of man's for my spirituality makes me an apostate then so be it. I will still say my "worldly" friends are better then 90% of the people in the organization. As for the WTS it seems to be so full of crap that I am going to need a bigger shovel.
• 

  DazedAndConfused

  JW:

  Reasoning Book, copyright 1985:

  Astostasy is abandoning or deserting the worship and service of God, actually a rebellion against Jehovah
  God. Some apostates profess to know and serve God but reject teachings or requirements set out in his
  Word. Others claim to believe the Bible but reject Jehovah's organization.

  Websters Dictionary, copyright 1998:

  a total desertion of or departure from one's religion, cause, party, etc.

  If you think about it, almost everyone alive is apostate to something. All the ones that left their original
  religion to become a JW is apostate. As is anyone who goes from being Democrat to Republican. Or, as in
  my case, I am apostate because I no longer put my garbage into the recycle bin. Anyone
  disfellowshipped is also apostate.

  When I was in the Borg I thought that all apostates were actively working against the Society (it never
  entered my mind about them working against Jehovah, only the Society). But by the Websters definition
  everyone who does not do what they once did, is apostate. Interesting.
• 

  mommy

  Hey Fed up,
  I have often asked those who claim to be active Jw's here in the chat or on Yahoo chat rooms. Do you know I never recieved the same response? Never! I honestly think that they use apostate as a blanket term for the boogie man. If it is labeled apostate, it is considered unworthy of any further research.

  I recall as a child, being scared to death of apostates. They were the evil who would try to drag me away from the one and true religion When I was first labeled as an apostate, I was so upset. But after really thinking about this, and getting responses from active Jw's, I am not worried. As I said, they dont' even know what an apostate is. My mothers first response to the UN fiasco? You guessed it, it must be from an apostate.
  wendy

  Blind faith can justify anything.~Richard Dawkins
• 

  California Sunshine

  Hi you guys,

  I never stop learning when I come here and read your posts.

  I left the borg long before they started using the "A" word. I don't want to sound uneducated (a kinder word then stupid) but I wondered exactly what an apostate was.

  You all helped me today....especially Nathan.

  Best Regards,

  Sunny

  minds are like parachutes--they only function when open.