Personally, I believe that the borg is intentionally downsizing. Fewer printings of mags, sending people home from bethel before they grow older. Selling off property, shortening meetings, settling legal issues. Soon enough, they will bail out, take the money for the select few and VOILA! All you will see is smoke and empty buildings and empty promises. It's all one big Nigerian scam.
Would You Be Putting 2+2 together if You Were Still a Witness?
by journey-on 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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journey-on
Nomoreguilt, you may be right. I wonder what will happen to Jehovah's Witnesses when the WTBTS corporation vamooses with all the money and assets?
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WTWizard
I think, if the Watchtower Society ever does get ruined, about 20% of the witlesses are going to be up sxxx creek without a paddle since they live for the Tower. Another 60% are going to be in for some measure of hardship, but they will manage to cope and resume their lives, bitter as they may be about having been swindled out of so much time and money. The other 20% are going to feel liberated.
As for me, I left because they wanted me to stay celibate for life. That was a leaving issue, and I wanted to waste as much of their time and resources trying to account for me as I could. I think eventually the hounder-hounder is going to make them account for me, and then the real fun of making them waste their time and energy will begin. Because of that, my going apostate was a deliberate act so I would not be in a world where I would have nothing but other men (I would rather get destroyed at Armageddon and punish Jehovah and His organization by dragging everyone else out in the process). Then I looked at the sites that I intentionally found, and realized that the Tower was all a bunch of lies.
And I found it much easier than I thought it would be. With the Watchtower Society around, I thought that typing "ex-Jehovah Witness" into Google would produce few or no results. But it led me to all the spiritual light that I missed out on in the Tower. Much of it I had already figured out before going apostate, especially that Armageddon was "close and getting closer" and would never make it (the old algebra graph where the curve gets closer and closer to a line without reaching it).
Effectively, I had already figured out the scam, but now I know the whole scam.
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My Struggle
Elaborate yknot.. What do you mean by "fleeing Jerusalem" and in whose conversations, JWD or JWs? "Get out of Her, My People" is a phrase that means (according to JWs) "get out of false religion....period." I am sure that this is what yknot means... The basic story that I was pounded with growing up was this, in 66 C.E. people of Jerusalem knew that when the armies surrounded their town that they had to leave because they were about to be attacked. Well, it was many years and nothing had happened, so some lost heart and went back to the city, thinking that they were wrong to leave or that the warning was wrong. After four years many had gone back to the city and it was attacked and all those that went back were killed and those that were faithful by staying away survived. This was a scare tactic that stuck out very strong to me...I did not want to question the timing of Armageddon or lose faith. Here is the Jan. 15th 2007 Watchtower... 13 It was imperative that first-century Christians keep their sense of urgency. They needed to take immediate action to flee Jerusalem when they saw that city "surrounded by encamped armies." (Luke 21:20, 21) That happened in the year 66 C.E. Notice how Jesus highlighted the need for urgency on the part of Christians back then: "Let the man on the housetop not come down to take the goods out of his house; and let the man in the field not return to the house to pick up his outer garment." (Matthew 24:17, 18) In view of the fact that history shows that Jerusalem survived for four more years, why did Christians need to heed Jesus' words so urgently in 66 C.E.?
14 While it is true that the Roman army did not destroy Jerusalem until 70 C.E., the intervening years were not trouble free. Far from it! Those years were filled with violence and bloodshed. One historian describes the situation in Jerusalem during that time as "a fearfully bloody civil war, accompanied by acts of horrid cruelty." Young men were recruited to strengthen the fortifications, to take up weapons, and to serve in the military. They underwent daily military exercises. Those who were not in favor of extreme measures were viewed as traitors. If Christians had lingered in the city, they would have found themselves in an extremely dangerous position. — Matthew 26:52; Mark 12:17.
15 It should be noted that Jesus said that "those in Judea," not just Jerusalem, were to start fleeing. This was important because within a few months of their withdrawal from Jerusalem, the Roman troops once again renewed their war operations. First, Galilee was subdued in 67 C.E., and then Judaea was systematically conquered the following year. This resulted in great misery throughout the countryside. It also became increasingly difficult for any Jew to escape from Jerusalem itself. The city gates were guarded, and any trying to escape were assumed to be deserting to the Romans.
16 With all these factors in mind, we can understand why Jesus emphasized the urgency of the situation. Christians had to be willing to make sacrifices, not allowing themselves to become sidetracked by material possessions. They had to be willing to "say good-bye to all [their] belongings" in order to obey Jesus' warning. (Luke 14:33) Those who promptly obeyed and fled to the other side of the Jordan were saved. -
My Struggle
To answer the org. post. No, I don't think that I would be putting anything together out of the things you mentioned.
First…..all the corporations that were formed separating everything in the eary 2000’s. Why? What is the REAL reason for doing that?
Second…..their association with the United Nations.
I don't know how I would have become aware of any of these things, other than looking at 'apostate' sites, but your point six would have taken care of me having a chance to figure that out.
Third….their changes on MAJOR doctrines.
Yes...and no. If I had even noticed the change then yes, I would begin to connect the dots. They try so hard to sweep changes under the rug (by not mentioning the old doctrine, and just stating the new one like it is waht they have always taught) that I may not have even noticed it. If I had, the yes this would have been a big concern.
Fourth….the pedophile issue and subsequent cover-up. (Not like Jehovah at all to let this happen!)
LIES.....ALL LIES BY SATAN. He never stops in trying to damage the Truth....At least that is the way I would have looked at it.
Sixth….the constant harping about apostates!
Seventh….The Real Estate profits and the Construction/Reconstruction "business" and all the stuff involving ownership in Rand Cam.
Would have agreed about the apostates, why would I want to listen to people that are trying to harm the Truth. So, I would have never know about point seven.
O My God I wish I could have know you sooner, My God...I was gullible.
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erandir
I find mathematics to be an invaluable tool that I use in everyday life. Witness or no.
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BluesBrother
Yes because I put 2 + 2 together about ten years ago, so I am sure it would be even plainer now. I had been mildly interested the calendar and approaching the new millennium I read up and realized that the chronology was simplistic and did not work. and that added to some unhappiness over the "generation change" of the mid nineties Coincidentally there were things in my life that made me conclude that God would never destroy the world in the way that Witnesses teach. So the penny dropped and I saw for the first time that it was all a man made religion.
With me it was several smaller things and then one big thing, lying and deceit by someone I respected.
I have seen several comments like Blondie's. Many are stumbled by people. Personally people do not matter so much. it was the concept and beliefs that mattered, so I tolerated the bad experiences on the congregations.
Why do otherwise intelligent dubs not see what we can see?
It takes a massive leap of the mind to even consider that the WTS may not be the truth. It is like questioning whether your Mother is really your Mother...despite a lot of pointers, the person may well be the last one to figure it out. You just could not entertain the idea - you would not want to think it .
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shopaholic
I put 2+2 together back in 1995 and wondered why no one made a big deal of it but me. Then I got hit with the "are you only worshipping Jehovah for what he can give you" and "now that it maybe longer than expected you have doubts, did you ever really love Jehovah". I had just graduated from college two years earlier and folks started to tell me that "worldly thinking" was starting to influence me. What did I do? I immediately started pioneering to build up my faith...I should have went to grad school instead.
I think many JWs have put 2+2 together but due to the guilt-trip the org lays on you or not wanting to start over just kind of drift along with the org.