what is supposedly resurrected at resurrection?

by iblowmynoseatyou 60 Replies latest jw friends

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    :what is supposedly resurrected at resurrection?

    It's simple, really. The WTS teaches when you die, everything about you dies. Since thoughts and feelings are not flesh, but are definitely dependent on flesh, "they" vaporize or disappear with the death of the body. But God sorta "captures" them and memories and personality traits and somehow stores all of that in a Celestial database (built by Oracle systems). Since there is nothing left of YOU to resurrect, God just takes some materials and makes a new (but not a clone) you, which is close enough for your old friends and family to recognize as the old you. God then "downloads" all the memory and personality stuff into the new body he made for you and voila! You are "resurrected."

    The WTS specifically teaches that God does not reassemble all of the atoms that comprised the old you. I'm not making any of this up, except the "Oracle" database. God really uses Microsoft's SQL Server with the latest service packs. This, in a nutshell is what the WTS teaches.

    Farkel

  • restrangled
    restrangled

    Here is another question, and I can't find the scripture perhaps someone else will remember....

    In the supposed "New Order" all memory of the past would not be remembered.

    Doesn't your former history make you who you are today? The person you are married to, or were, the children you raised, your brothers and sisters? So if you were resurrected and these memories are erased....how does all of this fly in the face of reason? If your memory is erased, how are you possibly you?

    Maybe I'm off here but I always wondered what was the dividing line with memory.

    r.

  • Aphrodite
    Aphrodite

    Yeah! I remember that memory thing too. So god makes a new you then puts in what? If you don't remember any of the old stuff, your not you any more, so whats the point of even trying to get resurrected? Pffft nothing they say makes any sense at all!

  • hmike
    hmike

    You might be referring to Isaiah 65:17—

    "Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind." (NIV)

    Someone may like to offer a study on the Hebrew word translated remembered. I don't see that it means complete amnesia, but rather the troubles of the present age will not be part of the new as the rest of Isa. 65 explains.

  • Witchettygrub
    Witchettygrub

    I believe we are more than our body. It's only a temporary place for the real person to be in in this life.

    Farkel gave a good explanation - our memories, personal traits, 'downloaded' into a new body to begin life anew.


    Aphrodite, in Rev. 21:4 doesn't it say that we won't remember the painful things that caused suffering will not be brought to one's mind? In that life to come, we won't be looking back, just going ahead.


    Witchettygrub

  • worldtraveller
    worldtraveller

    After reading all of this I can say without a doubt that Star Trek makes a helluva lot more sense than the bible does at this point in time.

  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore
    After reading all of this I can say without a doubt that Star Trek makes a helluva lot more sense than the bible does at this point in time.

    Agreed, In fact there was a TNG episode closely touching on this point. (And it made more sense.) http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Second_Chances According to ST, your exact copy is actually a different person.

  • 5go
    5go

    Actually I was going to right a story on this idea of perfect cloning. But it has been done to death.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Hello, dear IBMNAY... may you have peace!

    The answer to your question actually depends… on which resurrection you’re referring to (there are two):

    1. The first resurrection takes place upon the return of my Lord. At that time, the SPIRIT of those who are resurrected (i.e., those who belong to the Christ, but died before his return) are resurrected and placed into spirit bodies, at precisely the same time as the FLESH of those who belong to the Christ but have not died (i.e., are alive when he returns) is changed (metamorphoso) into spirit bodies. Those of this second group “put off corruption” (i.e., flesh with its blood and, therefore, sin, in it - "soiled outer garments") and “put on incorruption” (i.e., spirit bodies that do not have sin and death in them – “white” robes/outer garments). The "body," whether spirit or flesh is merely a “vessel” that holds the essence (spirit) of every life force, every “being” – whether celestial (spirit/spiritual) or terrestrial (earthly/physical).

    2. The second resurrection takes place well after the first one; more than a 1,000 years after, in fact. It takes place AFTER the “separation of the sheep and goats” (which occurs when my Lord returns), as well as AFTER the "loosing of Satan from the abyss", and then AFTER his "misleading of Gog and Magog," and AFTER the resulting "destruction of Gog and Magog,"... and, finally, AFTER the "destruction… of Satan."

    At the time of this [second] resurrection, the sea, Death, and Hades/Sheol (the “world” of Death/the dead) ALL give up those in them; thereafter, one of four (4) things occur:

    a. The spirit and flesh of some are resurrected… and, if their name is written in the Book of the Lamb (the second set of “scrolls” given to JAH, the One who actually judges - Christ judges NO ONE...), after which such flesh is changed… to spirit bodies (i.e., because of having their names written in the Book of Life, they are also given “white” robes/outer garments). These are “resurrected... to life.” This is because their “bad” deeds, as written in the first set of scrolls… are “covered”… “blotted out”… “cleansed”… by means of the blood of the Lamb. That is why their names are written in [his] Book (of Life).

    b. Of those remaining spirits (those who are not resurrected to flesh and then given white robes/spirit bodies):

    (1) The spirit and flesh of these are also resurrected; however, if their name is NOT written in the Book of the Lamb they are JUDGED… based on their “bad” deeds (which, along with their "good" deeds, are written in the first set of scrolls, but have no “covering”). Because their sins have NOT been covered/blotted out by the blood of the Lamb, their sins are reinstated and so now these must pay the “wage” (price/cost/debt of sin)… which is death. They are resurrected to judgment, then condemnation… and destruction… of the body(of flesh) AND the spirit.

    [And no, contrary to what the WTBTS falsely teaches (and I had this very discussion with Carey Barber, face to face…), these did not “pay” for their sins when they died so as to have a “right” to resurrection. NO ONE… “pays” for their sins when they die: they simply pay the PRICE of sin - death. Our blood… cannot ATONE for our sins. Our blood… is worthless… because of the sin IN IT. There is only ONE who can ATONE for our sins, Christ. When we die, therefore, died, we simply paid the debt owed for sinning; resurrection [to life] is not a “bonus” that any of are entitled to. It IS, however, a GIFT… from God… for those who belong to Christ, because he PURCHASED such ones… with HIS blood.]

    (2) That leaves the spirits of the final group, those who have no flesh to be resurrected to. My apologies but I do not feel that I have the “freedom” to discuss this group in this particular post (which is why I removed it yesterday). The circumstances of this group is very different… and very difficult to relate. Should my Lord ever grant me permission to relate it here, I will do so. Until that time, I would implore any who wish to know to go directly to him… and exercise faith in what he reveals.

    I hope this helps and, again, I bid you peace.

    A slave of Christ,


    SA

  • Cindi_67

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