First post - Help Required.

by Skepticue 21 Replies latest jw friends

Skepticue

(mods - If this post is better suited to another section of this forum please move it - I'm new here and I don't know the structure too well)
Hello you guys,
I am new to this forum having been linked here by a member of the Jref forum who was passing on his experiences as an ex-member.
There are so many things that I think about this situation but not so many things I actually 'know'. This is why I need to discuss this with someone or some people who could help me acheive the best possible outcome for my friend and also our relationship.
As briefly as I can I will explain my situation.
5 years ago I was looking for a new career and I began working in a small company. The company started as family business of Jehova's Witnesses (JWs) that became larger and so inevitably needed to employ those outside the faith. After a couple of years there was a very tough period where sales were very poor and job security was in question. My direct manager, who was a very close friend of the originators of the business and devout JW, decided to start his own company and because of other things but ultimately trust, he asked me to be his first employee.
At this current moment I see this guy everyday of the working week 9 - 5:30. He knows me in many ways more intimately than my own family. I express myself with absolute sincerity in his presence and feel 100% comfortable in doing so. I know when he's going to laugh, when he's going to be annoyed. Everyone knows what office politics can do you, yet sit me in an office with this guy in even the most serious moments and we'll both just start laughing because of something or other. I love him to death and because of this I feel some responsibility for his situation.
The reason I differentiated between 'think' and 'know' is because at this time I think there is no personal god and no divine creator. I think that I should protect my friend from something I think is a destrctive belief system. Being a total outsider I think it's totally insane that in the 21st century we have any organisation which provides text book 'answers' to our most complex questions about life and the cosmos. The bible it seems was not meant to be written by men but by men influenced by god. Thus the text is itself divine.
What I know is the thing in question. Do I know this is bad for him considering his wife and his infant are within the social structure that comes with this belief system? Do I know it's my place to 'educate' him? I'm mates with him, he seems happy on the surface, better than a lot of people for sure. A part of me however wants him to be annoyed at the amount of BS he may or may not be being thrown because if it's actually not true then he's being lied to. Nobody wants a close friend to be lied to. Irrespective of what we would all want to be true, that is most important to me, protect a friend but being lied to.
I would like to discuss this further. Pm me for my msn if any of you are ok to discuss this with me and of course any comments on this forum would be appreciated.
AWAKE&WATCHING

W E L C O M E
someone else will be along shortly with comments - I just wanted to say HI
momzcrazy

Welcome to JWD. Buy your boss a copy of Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz for Christmas. I have my own copy and bought my sister one for Christmas.
Good Luck.
momzcrazy
Skepticue

I'm really sorry. For some reason my post compacted itself. I hope reposting it with a different option will insert the paragraphs.

(mods - If this post is better suited to another section of this forum please move it - I'm new here and I don't know the structure too well)

Hello you guys,

I am new to this forum having been linked here by a member of the Jref forum who was passing on his experiences as an ex-member.

There are so many things that I think about this situation but not so many things I actually 'know'. This is why I need to discuss this with someone or some people who could help me acheive the best possible outcome for my friend and also our relationship.

As briefly as I can I will explain my situation.

5 years ago I was looking for a new career and I began working in a small company. The company started as family business of Jehova's Witnesses (JWs) that became larger and so inevitably needed to employ those outside the faith. After a couple of years there was a very tough period where sales were very poor and job security was in question. My direct manager, who was a very close friend of the originators of the business and devout JW, decided to start his own company and because of other things but ultimately trust, he asked me to be his first employee.

At this current moment I see this guy everyday of the working week 9 - 5:30. He knows me in many ways more intimately than my own family. I express myself with absolute sincerity in his presence and feel 100% comfortable in doing so. I know when he's going to laugh, when he's going to be annoyed. Everyone knows what office politics can do you, yet sit me in an office with this guy in even the most serious moments and we'll both just start laughing because of something or other. I love him to death and because of this I feel some responsibility for his situation.

The reason I differentiated between 'think' and 'know' is because at this time I think there is no personal god and no divine creator. I think that I should protect my friend from something I think is a destrctive belief system. Being a total outsider I think it's totally insane that in the 21st century we have any organisation which provides text book 'answers' to our most complex questions about life and the cosmos. The bible it seems was not meant to be written by men but by men influenced by god. Thus the text is itself divine.

What I know is the thing in question. Do I know this is bad for him considering his wife and his infant are within the social structure that comes with this belief system? Do I know it's my place to 'educate' him? I'm mates with him, he seems happy on the surface, better than a lot of people for sure. A part of me however wants him to be annoyed at the amount of BS he may or may not be being thrown because if it's actually not true then he's being lied to. Nobody wants a close friend to be lied to. Irrespective of what we would all want to be true, that is most important to me, protect a friend but being lied to.

I would like to discuss this further. Pm me for my msn if any of you are ok to discuss this with me and of course any comments on this forum would be appreciated.
changeling

Welcome!
Your post is a little confusing.
Tell me if I got it right: You worked for a company started by JW's. A fellow employee started his own company and you went with him. You are very fond of this person. He is a JW and you want him to be free of the destructive religion he's in and don't know how or if to break the news to him.
OK so far?
Provided I got the story straight, could I say that my impression is that you have a "crush" on this person? No judgement here, it just sort of leaps out of your post.
If this is the case, please come to terms with that before you proceed with trying to "deconvert" him. You mention he is married, so the situation could be difficult.
FYI, JW's are very intolerant of any negative comments regarding their religion. If you bombard him with info he will run the other way.
You may want to look through the "best of" section of this forum and chose some tidbits to share with your friend when the opportunity presents itself.
changeling
Skepticue

Any book which is persuasive against his faith would surely be an impossible read for my friend? Could you tell me why this book is one that stands out? Thanks for telling me about it.
AudeSapere

Others will come along soon with better advice and insight.
I just wanted to say Hello and Welcome to JWD.
-Aude.
momzcrazy

I suggested it as a present because he may be less apt to throw it in the bin if it is a gift. It was written by a former JW, from a prominent JW family, who served on the Governing Body. That is what it sounds like; a group of men who decide the rules for all the followers. It also gives an excellent history of the religion.
If he is an elder he may recognize it right off and dismiss it, so you could start with questions. Changling suggested the Best Of section here. Great place to start. Example, the NBC coverage of the pedophilia cases and how they were handled. Or the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society's membership in the NGO's of the United Nations. Or the flip flop and subsequent deaths caused by the blood ban.
Just suggestions. Good luck.
momzcrazy
Skepticue

Changling - Thanks for your post.
 I re-read my use of the word intimate together with love, and despite their connotations felt it appropriate because I wanted to stress how many things we have in common and how much I value him as a friend. When we cross into certain other subjects however, we couldn't be more incongruous.
 There is nothing sexual in my affection toward this guy.
 I feel my friend is worth persuading to look at the possibilty he's being lied to by an organisation that from the outside could be argued to resemble a cult. He's so switched on about logic in a business sense but ignores logic when it comes to his religion.
 By the way. He isn't on a lower rung. He does a talk each week in front of the congregation. There's so much to this.

*edit* - Thanks for being so welcoming you guys.
jwfacts

Welcome to the site.
Your question is difficult to answer. On the one hand, the WTS is a destructive cult that people deserve to know the truth about. On the other, he potentially is better off in his own ignorance. Leaving is an extremely traumatic process that very possibly will mean he looses his wife and contact with all his family and JW friends. If you preuse this site you will find many very sad stories of what happens as people leave.
That said, to help your friend leave, ask him questions. Why does he thinks only JWs have truth? Once you know the reasoning behind his faith you will know what to tackle. Does he think God picked the Watchtower Slave class in 1919? - present info to dismantle that concept. Is it because he thinks only JWs don't go to war? - show him that is wrong. Is it because he believes the word Jehovah is essential in worship - show why that is wrong.
jwfacts.com answers any subject he will raise, and a good place to start is http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/5min.htm
I generally find that attacking the Bible is harder than attacking the Watchtower Society. It is very easy to prove a sect that sprung up in the 1800's, with a string of failed predictions for the end of the world, is not directed by God. It is a lot harder to attack a religious book that is accepted by billions of people. Once he leaves the Witnesses he is a lot more likely to be objective in his examination of other religious systems.
You may find any discussions quite disenchanting. Due to cognitive dissonance, people do not easily give up their religious belief structure.

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