I Miss My JW Daughters Terribly- But I Have a Plan for 2008 !

by flipper 31 Replies latest jw friends

  • flipper
    flipper

    Well, towards the end of 2007, my life is really basically very good ! I have a lot to be thankful for, a wonderful wife , great son , a good place to live in the mountains , and great animals on our property , a peaceful life . Just one big void still there in my life , my JW daughters have frozen me out of their lives . It does hurt . I know lots of you have gone through this with witness adult children also . My daughters are 20 and 19, married witness " boys " in the last couple years . When I first stopped going to meetings 4 years ago , their mother, my ex, told my girls that I was being rebelious in disagreeing with the counsel the elders were giving me , ( they were advising me to get back with a druggie wife who had left me ) . I did not want to endanger my daughters , but I was dissed by the elders for calling them out on their stupid-a$$ counsel ! Then last year my witness ex wife tried to falsely get me DFed for " alledgedly " living with Mrs. Flipper one month before marrying ! My youngest daughter and her mother " spied " on my wife and I with absolutely NO concrete evidence , and the elders I had not seen in 4 years came chasing after me , like I was some kind of a threat , even though not attending for 4 years ! So, long story short I fougt their allegations , an appeal committee overturned the original JC elders decision to DF me, and after 9 months of interrogation I was free to go .

    However after I was cleared as a free man, my daughters would NOT have anything to do with me ( spurred on by their mom) . I have written just kind , normal letters to see how they are doing, never get one back . I have called them, never a phone call back . So, I just watch and wait . But towards the end of the year , I am becoming proactive now, carefully !

    I talked at length with a certain poster ( I'll keep it confidential as I don't know if he wants people to know he did this ) who helped his mom get out of the witnesses by using methods pointed out in the book by Steve Hassan, " Combatting Cult Mind Control ". This posters mom had been a witness for 20 years and by using kindness, intuitive questioning and methods I am presently learning about by reading this book , helped his mom escape a mind control cult, The Jehovah's Witnesses . So, I haven't got to that point in the book yet, I am on page 80 or so, but after the first of the year I have a plan to use these methods to try and help my daughters get back their critical thinking ability . In the book it says that all cult members have " dual " identitities . They have their cult identity which they wear most of the time as witnesses , " a robot like speech pattern like a tape recording of a cult lecture. Very rigid posture, facial muscles tighten,. A cult members eyes will be glassy, cold, or glazed , and they often seem to stare through people . Not much emotion. " " But when a person is talking from his original identity (not cult infuenced ) , he is more spontaneous. Speak with more range of emotion, will be more expressive and will share his feelings more willingly His muscles will be more relaxed , eye contact will be more natural, and body language warmer . " Steve Hassan continues sayin, " Recognizing this change , ( when a cult person goes back and forth from one personality to the other, even in mid-sentence) and acting appropriately, is the key to unlocking the person's real self and freeing it from the cult's bondage . " And of course those methods are pointed out later in the book.

    So, this was an eye opener for me , that there is still an element of a witnesses original personality still deep in there ( pre-witness ) that we have to reach somehow. I am also feeling guilt for raising my daughters as witnesses, although I was raised in it, what was I to do? Until I found out ? In the past since my not attending meetings my daughters would say to me, " Well, Dad, you raised us to believe this ? Are you saying we shouldn't do it now ? " But now I feel a renewed committment to gradually hep them get their original reasoning back . I know it will take awhile, but I love my daughters, miss them, and don't want to see them waste their lives away in a mind control cult. So, what do you guys think ? Do I have a shot, a chance to reach them ? I think it's worth a try , of course in a careful, tactful way . I've talked with someone who did it , I hope it works . As always I welcome your caring kind thoughts. Peace out to all, Mr. Flipper

  • changeling
    changeling

    I hope your methods are successful, if not to get them "out", at least to re-establish a relationship with them.

    My heart goes out to you and all others who have been cut of from their precious children.

    changeling

  • flipper
    flipper

    Thanks Changeling . it has been an adjustment because I was always an involved father with my daughters . Just can't imagine I'm an uncaring person now that I differ in my beliefs or support for an organization which I feel has unjust ways . Appreciate your caring words. Peace out, Mr. Flipper

  • Outaservice
    Outaservice

    I would say, 'don't forget prayer'. At least if you are a believer. Many claim results from this, although sometimes much time and patience is needed. My personal feelings are, prayer is very powerful, and God is a Master in figuring out difficult situations and causing things to happen for the good of all.

    Just a thought.

    Outaservice

  • flipper
    flipper

    OUTASERVICE- Thanks for the advice to pray. I'm kind of agnostic , so don't know if I believe in a God , but I'll give up some good thoughts to the great spirit up there. Anything might help ! Thanks

  • Abandoned
    Abandoned

    ((((((((((Mr. Flipper))))))))))

    I wish you luck in your endeavor. You are one of the more articulate posters here and I'm sure you'll do your best. (for your daughters)

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I don't want to be a downer. Certainly, you must try.

    I believe it was Garybuss on freeminds.org that pointed out some problems with trying to
    break through to the pre-cult personality when the person was raised in the cult.
    There is not much (if any) of a pre-cult personality. The cult is all some people knew.

    That is not the end of it. There is, of course, the smothered person inside the cult personality.
    There is a doubter, a creative mind, a person desirous of a happy family, the dreamer, SOMETHING
    THAT IS NOT JW. It is there. But it just isn't so easy to reach it. An adult who converts has
    more to work with. While the book is valid, keep that in mind.

    I read the second Steven Hassan book, RELEASING THE BONDS. Honestly, I didn't like the
    book as much as the first, but it is more practical in reaching the minds of JW's. You have to have
    several mini-interventions with the JW to reach the inner pre-cult (or truly non-cult) personality.
    In the case of shunners, that is virtually impossible. I only put out this negative thought to get
    it out of the way. Ready for good news?

    Intelligent (and otherwise) people tire of the WTS and it's doctrines and controls. Many are
    doubters without any prompting. All efforts are worthwhile. Keep trying something. One day,
    some effort may succeed. You have the ability to demonstrate that you are not a sinner, and
    never broke any commandments that caused "Jehovah" to assign you to oblivion. You can
    reach out to family from that angle. I hope you work it out.

    You know I mean well to point out such negatives. I wish so much to free my family members,
    including my wife, from the bonds of WT prison.

  • Lady Liberty
    Lady Liberty

    Dear Flipper,

    (((HUGS))!! I think it is a great idea. Never give up hope! My parents left the borg 2 years before I did. During those two years it was the most gut wreching time of my life. We were always very close and they were the pillars in my life. But suddenly I found myself convinced that they were apostates, although I never really gave them a opportunity to prove to me what they were saying was true.

    My mother reminds me to this day of the time she was trying to get me to read a scripture and I put my hands over both ears and said," I don't want to hear it mom". She couldn't believe I was too afraid to even read a scripture. We laugh about it now, and I tell my parents, they just trained me too well!n I still have alot of guilt for ever doubting the two people who I should trusted the most in this world!!

    Your daughters love and miss you, be assured of that! It is just that they are fighting not only the brain washing of a cult, but it sounds like they are also fighting the brain washing of your ex wife. A double whamey. I am so greatful my parents didn't push me, but let me come to the truth about the truth on my own. Although I have to say, when I started to have questions some of the things they had told me can flooding back. So I was greatful I could finally break free of my fears and once again resume the close relationship we had always had.

    I never cut them off, but we definately were not close those 2 years. I resent that now, that those years are lost, because I let mere men dictate to me how I should be treating my parents. And no doubt your daughters will one day wake up and feel the same. You raised them the best way you thought for them at the time, so don't blame yourself. When their hearts are ready for truth, they will see it. Until then, more power to you, hang in there! They love you too, I am sure of that! They are just very scared.

    Sincerely,

    Lady Liberty

  • Poztate
    Poztate

    I wish the best for you but the WT has been in the mind control business for a lot of years now.

    I read Steve Hassens book. A lot of good tips in there. I have it on loan to my Daughter "Mysterious" of (JWD)

    I hope to get it back someday.

  • Finally-Free
    Finally-Free

    "Combatting Cult Mind Control" and "Releasing the Bonds" are both good books. I was slowly achieving a measure of success with my mother, but she passed away before I got her out. I got her to the point where she no longer believed that only JWs could be approved by God, she ate Christmas dinner with us, and I got her to come to my sister's 65th birthday party which was held in the basement of a nearby Catholic Church. Our relationship was better with me as an "apostate" than it was when I was a pioneerâ„¢.

    I wish you success, and hope your daughters find their way out with your help.

    W

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