Did Satan want to kill Jesus and

by moomanchu 19 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • moomanchu
    moomanchu

    would he even have tried to?
    My opinion no and no.

    From Watchtower website:

    These astrologers have followed a star from the east and are bearing gifts for "the one born king of the Jews." (Matthew

    2:2) But the star does not lead them to Bethlehem. It draws them to Jerusalem and to Herod the Great. No man in the

    world holds such means and motive to harm young Jesus. This ambitious, murderous man had killed several of his own

    immediate family members whom he viewed as threats.* Disturbed to hear of the birth of a future "king of the Jews," he

    dispatches the astrologers to find that One in Bethlehem. As they go, something strange happens. The "star" that led

    them to travel to Jerusalem seems to move!—Matthew 2:1-9.

    Now, whether this was an actual light in the sky or simply a vision, we do not know. But we do know that this "star" was not

    from God. With sinister precision, it leads these pagan worshipers right to Jesus—a child vulnerable and helpless,

    protected only by a poor carpenter and his wife. The astrologers, Herod's unwitting dupes, likely would have reported

    back to the vengeful monarch, leading to the child's destruction. But God intervenes through a dream and sends them

    back home by another route. The "star," then, must have been a device of God's enemy Satan, who would go to any

    lengths to harm the Messiah. How ironic that the "star" and astrologers are portrayed in Nativity scenes as emissaries of

    God!—Matthew 2:9-12.
    Still, Satan does not give up. His pawn in the matter, King Herod, orders that all infants in Bethlehem under two years of

    age be killed. But Satan cannot win a battle against Jehovah. Matthew notes that God had long ago foreseen even this

    vicious slaughter of innocent children. Jehovah countered Satan again, warning Joseph through an angel to flee to Egypt

    for safety.

    John 19:10-11
    "Do you refuse to speak to me?" Pilate said. "Don't you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?" Jesus

    answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above.

    John 10:17
    The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it

    down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my

    Father."

    Mathew 4:5
    Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6"If you are the Son of God,"

    he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written:
    " 'He will command his angels concerning you,
    and they will lift you up in their hands,
    so that you will not strike your foot against a stone
    .

    John 14:30
    I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me,

    Mark 8:31
    He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders,

    chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again.
    32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him.
    33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. "Get behind me, Satan!" he said. "You do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."

    No, Satan did not try to kill Jesus. Satan would have loved to keep Jesus alive, maybe have him as a new recruit.

    Why was Christ born? Christ was born in order to save men and women from their sins by dieing for them.

    Why would Satan want to help the process?

    What was Jesus really going through in the garden...how much he was dealing with....it wasn't just the dying. Jesus saw

    the future he knew how people will kill in his name ect.. It was the turning point for the whole future. How through his death,

    all things would change forever.

    Just my opinion.

  • ldrnomo
    ldrnomo

    good thoughts, This is what I love about being free from the borg. You can express opinions about the meaning of scripture freely and not be dogmatic about it.

  • DoubleVision
    DoubleVision

    It only took the WTS to get to the second sentence for there

    first lie, man there getting quick.

    DV

    PS: I raise my glass to both of you, to freedom to express our mind.

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman

    (Genesis 3:15) And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel."

    (Luke 2:34) Also, Sim´e·on blessed them, but said to Mary its mother: "Look! This one is laid for the fall and the rising again of many in Israel and for a sign to be talked against

    Isaiah53:10 But Jehovah himself took delight in crushing him;

    Shall we conclude that God is the Satan? OF course not. What I think the Bible means is that God allowed the satan to kill Jesus and in that way it was God that actually killed Jesus because God put Jessu in that situation and did not protect him from harm. At the same time Jessus submitted to his Fathe's wishes so it can also be said that Jesus laid down his own life. All of aspects have to be considered in order to understand what actually happened.

  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore

    What I think the Bible means is that God allowed the satan to kill Jesus and in that way it was God that actually killed Jesus because God put Jessu in that situation and did not protect him from harm. At the same time Jessus submitted to his Fathe's wishes so it can also be said that Jesus laid down his own life.

    So it was all part of the plan on Yahweh and Jesus' side right?

    So why did Satan go along with the plan?

    If the ransom was part of Yahweh's plan, then it would be in Satan's best interest to let Jesus live as LONG as possible.

    If Satan was involved, Jesus probably would have got life in prison. (At least that's how I would have handled it!)

    Lore - W.W.S.D?

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman

    The ransom was part of God's purpose not plan. Plans can be foiled but not God's purpose! God foresaw what Satan would do! God saw the future in adavance. In the same manner that the satan succeded to break Adam Satan tried everything that he could to turn Jesus against God but failed. It was in satans best interest to destroy Jesus and not to have him alive. Jesus was satans enemy. Jesus was the lighbearer into the stans darkness. Satan wanted him dead. Satan wants pleasure now. If satan was a clear thinker he would not have turned against God to seal his doom.

  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore

    None of that is logically consistant!

    The ransom was part of God's purpose not plan. Plans can be foiled but not God's purpose!

    That is only your opinion, so I won't touch on it.

    God foresaw what Satan would do!

    So Satan has no free will?

    God saw the future in adavance.

    The future can be changed.

    In the same manner that the satan succeded to break Adam Satan tried everything that he could to turn Jesus against God but failed.

    I'm not sure I agree with your phrasing. Satan didn't 'break' Adam. But yes, he did fail to turn Jesus against god.

    It was in satans best interest to destroy Jesus and not to have him alive.

    That is completely incorrect. As I said, it was in Satan's best interest to keep Jesus alive for as long as possible.

    Here's the motive: If Jesus doesn't die, there is no ransom, if there is no ransom, there is no resurrection, no resurrection no armageddon, no armageddon and Satan never dies.

    So if Jesus never died, Satan would never die.

    So Satan had every reason to protect Jesus.

    Why would he want him dead? You never explained that!

    Jesus was satans enemy.

    True! So, as I already said, it would be in Satan's best interest to have Jesus locked in prison forever.

    Heck, it would even be better to LET HIM ALONE, and do his preaching thing. Anything other than let him die.

    Jesus was the lighbearer into the stans darkness.

    I'm sorry, I don't know what that means.

    Satan wanted him dead.

    Says who?

    Why?

    Satan wants pleasure now.

    Says who?

    Plus, how would Jesus death, and the fulfillment of Yahweh's purpose, bring Satan pleasure? That doesn't even make sense!

    If satan was a clear thinker he would not have turned against God to seal his doom.

    I disagree wholeheartedly!

    If anything the Bible says about this Yaheh guy is true, then Satan's rebellion was the single GREATEST act of mercy toward the human race in the history of time. Satan was willing to risk death at Yahwehs tyrannical hand in order to free the human race from bondage.

    Even a third of the angels would rather die than continue to serve Yahweh.

    Satan is the greatest hero in the Bible.

    Lore - W.W.S.D?

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman

    Everything I said IS logial and consistent.

    You are free to be a lover of the satan and to believe in what you like. I choose to be a lover of Yahweh, the Creator and LIFEGIVER!

  • moomanchu
    moomanchu
    Isaiah53:10 But Jehovah himself took delight in crushing him;

    So Satan and Jehovah cooperated on this?

    Why did Jesus refer to Peter as Satan? It's because Peter was advocating Satan's position.

    he must be killed and after three days rise again.
    32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. (Jesus)
    33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter.
    "Get behind me, Satan!" he said. "You do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."

    Peter and Satan were against Jesus dieing.

    That seems simple to me what am I missing?

    It was in satans best interest to destroy Jesus and not to have him alive.

    Why?

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman

    Fact is that Jesus was killed just as the Bible predicted. That is why.

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