Pro Trinity

by David Macabee 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • David Macabee
    David Macabee

    Hello
    I have the following comments to make. The first 4 are rebuttals and the last 5 are arguments from my own.

    1st Comment:

    Some unitarians said…

    God is the inventor of logic and mathematics, disciplines He created to allow us to get to know Him and His world. Source: http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=37
    However, God works out side of logic, thus you can’t say that he can’t be 100% God and 100% human at the same time.

    2nd Comment:

    They also said…

    (6) Jesus is very plainly called a man many times in Scripture: John 8:40; Acts 2:22; 17:31; 1 Tim. 2:5, etc. In contrast to this, the Bible says, “God is not a man…” (Numbers 23:19), and “...For I am God, and not man...” (Hosea 11:9).

    These passages only show that God is not a man by nature, it says nothing about him not being able to become a man. Thus, you haven’t proven anything.

    3rd Comment:

    Unitarians Jesus said that the Father is greater than him. However, it means greater in authority and since Trinitarians believe that the Father is greater than authority than the son then you haven’t refute Trinitarian theology.

    4th Comment:

    Unitarians try to argue about Isaiah 9:6, but the chapter right after 10:21, shows that Mighty God here is actually God.

    5th Comment:

    Luke 24:46 shows that Jesus will have repentance done in his name. Doesn’t this clearly show that he is God? You can’t have an ordinary person having repentance being done in his name.

    6th Comment:

    Luke 7:24-27 says…

    "After John’s messengers left, Jesus began to speak to the crowd about John: ‘What did you go out into the desert to see? A reed swayed by the wind? If not, what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? No, those who wear expensive clothes and indulge in luxury are in palaces. But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. This is the one about whom it is written: "I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you."’"

    This shows that John the Baptist will prepare the way for the Lord and since he prepared the way for Jesus, this means that Jesus is lord.

    7th Comment:

    You didn’t address John 5:23, "That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."

    Here we see that we are to honor Jesus the same way we honor the father. Thus, we are to honor him as he is God himself.

    8th Comment:

    Jesus said “I am the way, the truth and the life’

    How can an ordinary man utter such words?

    9th Comment:

    Matthew 27:64-66 says…

    64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

    65 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy.

    66 What do you think?" "He is worthy of death," they answered.

    The Jews clearly understood that Jesus claimed divinity. Who are you to claim otherwise?

  • yesidid
    yesidid

    To whom is your post addressed?

  • Zico
    Zico

    Why don't you tell us a little about yourself David? Why are you here?

  • bigmouth
    bigmouth

    All interesting arguments David, but tell me, have you taken a little time out to read any of the posts on this forum ?

    You might be running ahead of yourself.......................

  • Gordy
    Gordy

    He could be under the impression that we are all Jehovahs WItnesses on here.

    Maybe he doesn't realise what a motley crew we are

    Ex-Jw's, some JW faders, Christians, Buddhists, agnostics, atheists. etc.

    Where else could you get such a mix ..... thats what makes this forum so good.

  • kwr
    kwr

    Obviously David is a heretic. BA HA HA HA!

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    To prepare you for your next argument with a Witness:

    8th Comment:

    Jesus said “I am the way, the truth and the life’

    How can an ordinary man utter such words?

    Jehovah's Witnesses claim that Jesus is more than an ordinary man and less than a god. Kind of like a souped-up angel on steroids.

    By the way, I personally believe that Jesus is fully God and one with God. Anything less diminishes his accomplishment, don't you think?

    http://www.wcg.org/lit/church/history/roadnicea.htm

  • Sad emo
    Sad emo

    Heck, I don't know why I'm wasting time replying to this, maybe Christmas spirit

    Comment 1 - Too darned right God isn't logical! I think you'd get close to 100% agreement on that here! That is not adequate proof that 'he' (not sure who you're referring to!) is 100% God and 100% man.

    Comment 2 -

    Jesus is very plainly called a man many times in Scripture: John 8:40; Acts 2:22; 17:31; 1 Tim. 2:5, etc. In contrast to this, the Bible says, "God is not a man…" (Numbers 23:19), and "...For I am God, and not man..." (Hosea 11:9). These passages only show that God is not a man by nature, it says nothing about him not being able to become a man. Thus, you haven’t proven anything.

    Neither have you

    Comment 3 - And your point is... ?

    Comment 4 - The word used for 'God' in Isaiah 9:6 is 'el' - which therefore doesn't necessarily mean THE God (with a capital G). YHWH even calls us ordinary folk 'gods' - elohim. Isaiah 10:21 - which refers to the same 'mighty god' is the only verse (as far as I see) in that chapter containing those words - the rest of the chapter refers to YHWH of hosts. Could it be that someone other than YHWH was being referred to in 10:21.

    And here's another question about 9:6 - if it is referring to the son - why does it call him 'everlasting father'? Can the father be the son? (answer - only if you're Sabellian/modalist!)

    Comment 5 - Nope! You can repent in any name - not that it would necessarily be valid! Your scripture proves nothing.

    Comment 6 - Just because Jesus is lord doesn't mean he is God. 'Lord' meant several things - master, slave owner etc, which one shall we choose?

    Comment 7 - Honour does not necessarily mean worship. It can mean respect. Letters were stamped with seals of authority in NT times, so the letter was treated with respect - now imagine that Jesus was God's letter (word) to mankind so he was 'stamped' with the seal of God's authority. That would mean Jesus should be treated with the same respect (ie honour) as though it was God himself speaking - it does not mean that Jesus IS God.

    Comment 8 - Easy. Here - I am the way, the truth and the life.

    Am I telling the truth?

    Comment 9 - In Jewish interpretation, yes Jesus claimed divinity, putting himself on a level with God - he didn't claim to be God.

    You may surprise us all by actually returning and replying. If you do, please tell us a bit more about yourself - bored schoolkid, newbie Christian or just an uneducated one?

  • Sad emo
    Sad emo
    Kind of like a souped-up angel on steroids.

    Jgnat ROFL! You have no idea what images that is conjuring up in my mind!!

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    Hi David !!!

    Some of us on this forum are ex-JW's.

    We figured out that the Jehovah's Witnesses have a demon god and went to the Savior who is God in the flesh.

    Anyway, welcom to the board and we hope you post again soon.

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