WT Comments (12/31 DISCIPLE MAKER) FEATURING SIR NOSE

by V 23 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    Brother Nose, I'd like to comment on para. 15,16:

    Q15, 16) How can you draw people into conversations about religious matters?

    "s ay... something interesting ", 'Jesus told Nicodemus: "Unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."' So, Nick must have thought, "This dude is wacky", but he listened. For us today, we might start by saying, "We have a message for you from outer space that was transmitted to some dudes in New York City. Wanna read about it?" These words will be so intriguing that the modern day "Nicodemus Class" could not hold back from responding and listening to Jesus whoever writes this crap.

    Oh, oh, para. 17, too, Br. Nose:

    Q17) What shows that Jesus was interested in children?

    Since Jesus didn't start preaching until he was 30, he realized that children should enjoy their childhood, have a good upbringing, and get preachy when they're older. In his day, Jesus would have been horrified by Pharisees that treated children as slaves to go out ringing doorbells for them, handing out printed false prophecy, reading scriptures from mistranslated scrolls. Oh yeah, there was that temple thing when Jesus was 12 listening and asking questions. It doesn't say he was talking about the Bible, they were talking about basketball I think.

    Oh, oh, and para. 18, too:

    Q18, 19) How can you help your child spiritually?

    Tell them that Armageddon is so close that they don't have to do their homework tonight because tomorrow morning everyone that isn't a JW will be dead, forever.

    In conclusion, now that Public Talks are 15 minutes shorter, that leaves more time for listening to those householders who are so eager to talk to JWs. Ah, yes, the fields are indeed white for harvesting... oh, wait, nevermind, the white is SNOW.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    When you get right down to the heart of the matter, the title should read Duh-sciple Maker because that's what is really happening.

    JW's no more teach people about the real message of the Bible than the Pope teaches people about Islam.

    What they are doing reminds me of Jesus' scathing remark that the Pharisees were making their proselytes twice the subjects for Gehenna as they themselves.

    It's a crying shame. No wonder I used to feel so uneasy when this subject came up.

    Sylvia

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    Are they really backsliding because they don't have the basic knowledge? Or, perhaps because the cost of doing more in field circus exceeds the benefit of doing so? And, if lives were at stake, many millions could be reached quickly by the Internet, radio, TV, and instant messaging on the cell phone. By forgoing those efficient means of reaching many, they have effectively doomed the work to go at a slow pace. People are going to be missed in remote corners of rural, and sometimes even urban, areas. Numbers are going to be mis-scripted (meaning that they put the wrong number down or put the correct number down with handwriting that cannot be read without error).

    Not only is door to door the least efficient way to spread the word, but it is the most costly. It takes more than an hour to work a street that is one block long. People get hot (or cold). It uses lots of gas, especially when you have to drive 30 miles each way to make a single return visit. Then there are the coffee breaks (which I suspect strongly that the tower is going to start going after in the not too distant future).

    Finally, it is embarrassing. Having to go to a door of a class- or workmate is not fun. Children are supposed to enjoy getting ridiculed by classmates because they were knocking on their doors at 10:00 in the morning on Saturday instead of playing sports or riding bicycles in the nice mild weather. And worse, the pedophile issue that has already dropped, plus further integrations that the whole religion is bad for society itself and could even lead us into the Second Dark Ages if unchecked, means even worse embarrassment.

    I will never again volitionally set foot out in field circus again. I apologize for anyone that I have called on when I was in, and set off a chain of events that ultimately led them to becoming witlesses. For me to do that work again would require someone to physically force me along, and that would be willing to put up with a huge amount of hassle for it all. Anyone that is thinking of joining: It is not worth it.

  • flipper
    flipper

    SIR NOSE- I liked the pictures inserted of the householder asking the witnesses about the child abuse lawsuit settlements ! Good stuff. I wonder how often householders are bringing this up to witnesses when they come to the door ? I know it is the only thing I will talk with witnesses about when they come to my door. I have done it twice in 5 months already. If they come to my door: the witnesses are going to get an education ! Good job, Sir Nose ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

  • Bonnie_Clyde
    Bonnie_Clyde

    Sir Nose: Thanks for the hard work. I read everything to Clyde while he drinking his coffee. You're from the UK? Will you please let me know what you mean when you refer to a person as a "mark?" Maybe the term is used that way here in the US but I'm not aware....

  • blondie
    blondie

    IMITATE THE GREAT DISCIPLE MAKER
    "Pay attention to how you listen."-LUKE 8:18.
    Q1, 2) Why should you pay attention to how Jesus dealt with people during his ministry?

    1) Jesus Christ was fulfilling his role as the Great Teacher and Disciple Maker when he told his followers: "Pay attention to how you listen." (Luke 8:16-18) That principle applies to your ministry as a Christian. If you pay attention to spiritual instruction, you will act on it and be an effective Kingdom proclaimer. Of course, you cannot hear the voice of Jesus today, but you can read about what he said and did, as revealed in the Scriptures. What do they disclose about the way Jesus dealt with people during his ministry?

    Disciple Maker--ever seen such a pattern before of all caps? Where is that title for Jesus in the Bible?

    Christian--only jws

    Of course, you cannot hear the voice of Jesus today?

    Really?!

    (John 10:16) 16 “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.

    2) Jesus was an excellent preacher of the good news and an outstanding teacher of Scriptural truth. (Luke 8:1; John 8:28) The work of making disciples involves both preaching and teaching, yet some Christians who are commendable preachers find it difficult to teach people effectively. Whereas preaching involves proclaiming a message, teaching people about Jehovah and his purposes usually requires that a disciple-maker build a relationship with them. (Matthew 28:19, 20) This can be done by imitating Jesus Christ, the Great Teacher and Disciple Maker.-John 13:13.

    Evidently, too many jws feel they have fulfilled the requirement for everlasting life by merely preaching feeling it is too difficult and time-consuming to teach people because it requires that they actually building a friendship/relationship with the individual.

    Q3) Imitating Jesus can have what effect on your efforts to make disciples?

    3) If you imitate Jesus' teaching methods, you will be complying with the apostle Paul's admonition: "Go on walking in wisdom toward those on the outside, buying out the opportune time for yourselves. Let your utterance be always with graciousness, seasoned with salt, so as to know how you ought to give an answer to each one." (Colossians 4:5, 6) Imitating Jesus in the work of making disciples calls for effort, but it will make your teaching effective because it will help you "to give an answer to each one" according to his individual need.

    Yes it "calls for effort."

    Jesus Encouraged Others to Speak

    Q4) Why can it be said that Jesus was a good listener?

    4) From childhood on, Jesus had the custom of listening to people and encouraging them to express their views. When he was 12 years old, for example, his parents found him in the midst of the teachers in the temple, "listening to them and questioning them." (Luke 2:46) Jesus did not go to the temple to embarrass the teachers with his knowledge. He went there to listen, although he also asked questions. His inclination to be a good listener may have been one quality that gained him favor with God and men.-Luke 2:52.

    Do the elders or any jws have the "custom of listening to people and encouraging them to express their views" at the KH?

    Are jws encouraged to ask good questions and listen of other jws?

    Q5, 6) How do we know that Jesus listened to the expressions of those whom he taught?

    5) After his baptism and anointing as the Messiah, Jesus maintained his interest in listening to people. He did not become so absorbed in what he was teaching that he forgot about those who came to hear him speak. Often, he would pause, ask what they thought, and listen to their response. (Matthew 16:13-15) For example, after the death of Martha's brother, Lazarus, Jesus told her: "Everyone that is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all." He then asked her: "Do you believe this?" And Jesus surely listened as Martha replied: "Yes, Lord; I have believed that you are the Christ the Son of God." (John 11:26, 27) How satisfying it must have been to hear Martha express her faith in that way!

    Do public speakers maintain interest in their audience or do the forget about those who came to listen? Is the audience encouraged to ask questions?

    6) When many disciples abandoned Jesus, he was interested in hearing the viewpoint of his apostles. So he asked: "You do not want to go also, do you?" Simon Peter answered: "Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life; and we have believed and come to know that you are the Holy One of God." (John 6:66-69) How those words must have pleased Jesus! A Bible student's similar expression of faith will certainly delight you.

    Notice how the WTS slips in the "where will be go" question which is really "WHOM" shall we go away to---Jesus. When the WTS does not follow the teachings of Jesus, should jws stay?

    Jesus Listened With Respect

    Q7) Why did many Samaritans come to put faith in Jesus?

    7) Another reason why Jesus was an effective disciple-maker is that he cared about people and listened to them with respect. On one occasion, for instance, Jesus witnessed to a Samaritan woman near Jacob's fountain at Sychar. During that discussion, Jesus did not do all the talking; he listened to what she had to say. While listening to her, Jesus noted her interest in worship and told her that God was looking for those who would worship Him with spirit and truth. Jesus showed respect and concern for this woman, whereupon she told others about him, and "many of the Samaritans out of that city put faith in him on account of the word of the woman."-John 4:5-29, 39-42.

    Do jws care about the people they call on? Why do they go when they are most likely not to be home? Why are they not prepared, having not read the material they are placing, have a standard, trite presentation used for the last 20 years?

    Do jws do all the talking? Do they switch from topic to topic rather than developing one from the Bible not quotes from WTS publications?

    Q8) How can the tendency of people to give their opinions help you to start conversations in the ministry?

    8) People usually enjoy expressing their views. For example, residents of ancient Athens enjoyed giving their opinions and listening to something new. This led to the apostle Paul's effective discourse on the Areopagus in that city. (Acts 17:18-34) When starting a conversation with a householder in your ministry today, you might say, "I am visiting you because I am interested in your opinion regarding [a certain topic]." Listen to the person's viewpoint, and comment on it, or ask a question about it. Then kindly show what the Bible says on the subject.

    "I am interested in your opinion"--but I know you are wrong or I know what you are going to say, so I don't listen.

    Jesus Knew What to Say

    Q9) What did Jesus do before "fully opening up the Scriptures" to Cleopas and his companion?

    9) Jesus was never at a loss for words. Besides being a good listener, he was often aware of what people were thinking, and he knew exactly what to say. (Matthew 9:4; 12:22-30; Luke 9:46, 47) To illustrate: Shortly after Jesus' resurrection, two of his disciples were walking from Jerusalem to Emmaus. "As they were conversing and discussing," says the Gospel account, "Jesus himself approached and began walking with them; but their eyes were kept from recognizing him. He said to them: `What are these matters that you are debating between yourselves as you walk along?' And they stood still with sad faces. In answer the one named Cleopas said to him: `Are you dwelling as an alien by yourself in Jerusalem and so do not know the things that have occurred in her in these days?' And he said to them: `What things?'" The Great Teacher listened as they explained that Jesus the Nazarene taught people, performed miracles, and was executed. Now some were saying that he had been raised from the dead. Jesus let Cleopas and his companion express themselves. Then he explained what they needed to know, "fully opening up the Scriptures" to them.-Luke 24:13-27, 32

    Does that mean that jws are qualified to know what people are thinking? Mind readers? Do they let people express themselves beyond the first initial words and then dominate the conversation?

    Q10) How might you find out the religious viewpoint of a person whom you meet in your ministry?

    10) You may know nothing about the religious viewpoint of a certain householder. To find out what it is, you might say that you enjoy listening to what people think about prayer. Then you might ask, "Do you think anyone really listens to prayers?" The answer may reveal a lot about the person's viewpoint and religious background. If he is religiously inclined, you may be able to draw him out further by asking, "Do you think God listens to all prayers, or might there be some prayers he does not approve of?" Such questions can lead to a relaxed conversation. When it is appropriate to share a Scriptural thought, you will want to do so tactfully, not attacking what the person believes. If he enjoys listening to you, he may be pleased to have you come back. But suppose he asks a question you cannot answer? You can do some research and return prepared to provide `a reason for your hope, doing so with a mild temper and deep respect.'-1 Peter 3:15.

    You may know nothing about the religious viewpoint of a certain householder???? Catholic neighborhood, gay neighborhood, muslim neighborhood---and jws don't make assumptions?

    Appropriate to share a scripture....are they there to listen to your opinion or to hear the voice of the fine shepherd?

    tactfully, not attacking

    Question you cannot answer...do research and don't return is the pattern of too many jws. The ones that argue at the initial call, do not do so with a mild tempter or deep respect, but with the attitude that they have THE TRUTH.

    [Picture on page 28] When preaching, be sure to listen

    Jesus Taught Deserving Ones

    Q11) What will help you to find those who deserve to be taught?

    11) The perfect man Jesus had discernment that enabled him to identify those who deserved to be taught. We find it much more of a challenge to locate those "rightly disposed for everlasting life." (Acts 13:48) So did the apostles to whom Jesus said: "Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving." (Matthew 10:11) Like Jesus' apostles, you must search for people who are willing to listen and to be taught Scriptural truth. You can find deserving ones by listening carefully to one person after another, taking note of the attitude of each individual.

    Jesus discerned who was deserving. Do jws have that ability, to judge others worthy of everlasting life?

    Q12) How can you continue to help an interested person?

    12) After leaving a person who has shown some interest in the Kingdom message, you will do well to continue thinking about his spiritual needs. If you write down what you have learned after conversing with someone about the good news, this will help you to keep on assisting the person spiritually. During return visits, you need to listen carefully if you are to learn more about the individual's beliefs, attitude, or circumstances.

    shown some interest in the WTS message, continue thinking about him??? Write down....name, address, but what they discussed? Learn more about the person or what the next topic will be stuffed down their throat, kindly of course.

    Q13) What may help you to discern a person's feelings about the Bible?

    13) How can you encourage people to tell you how they feel about God's Word? In some areas, it is effective to ask, "Have you found the Bible hard to understand?" The answer to that question often reveals a person's attitude toward spiritual matters. Another way is to read a scripture and ask, "How does that sound to you?" Like Jesus, you may accomplish much in your ministry by using good questions. However, a word of caution is in order.

    Have you found the Bible hard to understand--and they answer NO, what then?

    The tricky questions fall flat.

    Jesus Used Questions Effectively

    Q14) Without interrogating people, how can you show interest in their viewpoint?

    14) Show interest in the viewpoint of others without making them uncomfortable. Follow Jesus' method. He was not a tactless interrogator, but he used thought-provoking questions. Jesus was also a kind listener who refreshed sincere people and put them at ease. (Matthew 11:28) All sorts of people felt free to approach him with their concerns. (Mark 1:40; 5:35, 36; 10:13, 17, 46, 47) If individuals are to feel at ease telling you what they think about the Bible and its teachings, you must avoid interrogating them.

    Do jws show an interest in the viewpoint of other jws let alone non-jws? Not tactless, kind, refreshing, feel at ease, avoid interrogating them (unless you are an elder looking for wrongdoing).

    Q15, 16) How can you draw people into conversations about religious matters?

    15) In addition to using questions effectively, you can encourage conversation by saying something interesting and then listening to the response. For instance, Jesus told Nicodemus: "Unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3) Those words were so intriguing that Nicodemus could not hold back from responding and listening to Jesus. (John 3:420) You may be able to draw people into conversations in a similar way.

    Encourage conversation by jumping from topic to topic when the householder seems to be making a valid point.

    16) Today, the appearance of many new religions is a talking point in such places as Africa, Eastern Europe, and Latin America. In places like these, you can often start a conversation by saying: "I am concerned that there are so many religions. But I hope soon to see people from all nations united in true worship. Does that sound good to you?" By saying something surprising about your hope, you may be able to get people to express their view. And questions are easier to answer when there are two possible replies. (Matthew 17:25) After a householder has commented on your question, answer it yourself with a scripture or two. (Isaiah 11:9; Zephaniah 3:9) By listening carefully and noting the person's response, you may be able to determine what to discuss the next time you call.

    Does that sound good to you--NO; then what do you do when you get that answer. Variety and diversity is valued. Which religion do they want to be the only one? Their own?

    Jesus Listened to Children

    Q17) What shows that Jesus was interested in children?

    17) Jesus was interested not only in adults but also in children. He knew about the games youngsters played and the things they said. Sometimes he would invite children to come to him. (Luke 7:31, 32; 18:1517) Many children were among the crowds listening to Jesus. When young boys shouted out in praise of the Messiah, Jesus took note and showed that the Scriptures had foretold this. (Matthew 14:21; 15:38; 21:15, 16) Today, many children are becoming disciples of Jesus. So how can you help them?

    Jesus was interested in children....do jws show an interest in children at the KH, even their own; except the resident pedophiles.

    Are adult jws supposed to help other people raise their children as jws?

    Q18, 19) How can you help your child spiritually?

    18) To help your child spiritually, you must listen to him. You need to understand what ideas he has that may be out of harmony with Jehovah's thinking. Regardless of what your child says, it is wise to respond first with a positive remark. Then you can use appropriate scriptures to help your child understand Jehovah's view of matters.

    Understand what ideas he has that may be out of harmony with Jehovah's thinking--with the WTS thinking.

    Start with a positive remark--counsel given to elders when they are about to jump all over some poor jw.

    19) Questions have their place. But children do not enjoy being interrogated any more than adults do. Rather than place on your child the burden of answering a number of difficult questions, why not make a brief statement about yourself? Depending on the matter under discussion, you might say that you used to feel a certain way and explain why. Then you might ask, "Do you feel that way too?" Your child's response may well lead to a helpful and encouraging Scriptural discussion.

    Questions...not...interrogated...statement about yourself (like when you screwed up). Find out feelings only to adjust them........not real interest...........whatever they think is wrong.

    Keep On Imitating the Great Disciple Maker

    Q20, 21) Why should you be a good listener in your work as a disciple maker?

    20) Whether you are discussing a subject with your child or anyone else, good listening is vital. Indeed, it is an expression of love. By listening, you are acting in a humble way, and the one speaking is being shown respect and loving consideration. Of course, listening requires that you pay attention to the person's expressions.

    listening is an expression of love--how often do the elders or other jws converse with you and listen....love?

    How many show humility, respect, consideration and listen or jump to conclusions?

    21) As you engage in the Christian ministry, keep on listening carefully to the householders. If you pay close attention to what they say, you are likely to discern which aspects of Bible truth will be especially appealing to them. Then endeavor to help them by employing Jesus' various methods of teaching. As you do so, you will be rewarded with joy and satisfaction because you are imitating the Great Disciple Maker.

    What aspects of "Bible" truth....appeal------------CARROT---everlasting life on a paradise earth in good health surrounded by family and friends

    We aware that the WTS has several other articles coming up on the same theme....making disciples. jws know that they don't have to bring in a single person to live forever on earth. Just 1 hour a month, 15 minutes if you are old and disabled, is all it takes to earn it.

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    Definition of a mark:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_(victim)

    This is an underground slang term that evolved amongst swindlers because the intended victim was said to be "marked" for the sting. It could also be a reference to confidence man Ben Marks of Council Bluffs, Iowa whom David Maurer credited as the originator of the "Big Store". The victims were, in actuality, Marks' although the reference would have meant nothing to them.

    In some instances the victim would literally be marked. This was a practice among traveling crooked carnival game operators in the past.

  • watson
    watson

    Wow, this study is nothing more than a glorified Service Meeting part. Maybe they're conditioning the flock for combining the WT study and Service Meeting. Kind of explains the "non-public" Watchtower.

    He then asked her: "Do you believe this?" And Jesus surely listened as Martha replied: "Yes, Lord; I have believed that you are the Christ the Son of God." (John 11:26, 27) How He then asked her: "Do you believe this?" And Jesus surely listened as Martha replied: "Yes, Lord; I have believed that you are the Christ the Son of God." (John 11:26, 27) How

    Needs work on using "open ended" questions......

  • wanderlustguy
    wanderlustguy

    awesome review!!!!!!

  • RULES & REGULATIONS
    RULES & REGULATIONS

    Q17) What shows that Jesus was interested in children?

    17) Jesus was interested not only in adults but also in children. He knew about the games youngsters played and the things they said. Sometimes he would invite children to come to him. (Luke 7:31, 32; 18:1517) Many children were among the crowds listening to Jesus. When young boys shouted out in praise of the Messiah, Jesus took note and showed that the Scriptures had foretold this. (Matthew 14:21; 15:38; 21:15, 16) Today, many children are becoming disciples of Jesus . So how can you help them?

    What the writer meant to say was: '' Today,many children are becoming disciples of Jesus because they are being forced by their parents.They will get baptised around 12 years old because of parental pressure. Some of them will get disfellowshipped because of some wrong conduct. When most of them reach 18 years of age,they will abandon the true worship. How sad to see this before the great tribulation!"

    Thank you SIR NOSE,V

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