by inkling 69 Replies latest watchtower scandals
Professional WHAT? .... I think that what people should exercise is a bit of restraint, some sense of decency, and an interest in logical rational thought rather than hysterical emotionalism.
Good point on your part, bad wording on mine.
thank you
[inkling]
I went to worf's post and read the thread. Here's the problem I have with this:
1. It is not a crime to be homosexual even if you seem to be "happily married." So iif D. S. was homosexual and "passing" as a happily married heterosexual, he was not committing a criminal offense.
2. Sexual activity between consenting adults is not criminal. So if a homosexual passing as a happily married heterosexual propositions another adult. No crime has been committed. The person propositioned can always say "No."
3. Suicide is, by definition, the murder of oneself. No one else "shares guilt" for the act. Sorry, but that's the reality of the situation. EVERY person who commits suicide does it for some reason. Almost always these are bad reasons. Killing yourself because a homosexual propositioned you is a very bad reason.
4. If there is a crime here, it would be in relation to the relocation and re-disposal of the body. With the cemetery on private land, that will not be an easy thing to prove.
My hope is that someday some Watchtower lawyer like Carolyn Wah will experience an aposta-epiphany and rat out the WTB&TS ala Ray Franz. This is extremely unlikely.
a lot of upset over what is just gossip - someone said that someone knew someone who said something about someone. And to actually name a name in the context seems like slander to me. And anyway, unless someone can prove there WAS a young man who killed himself AND that the WTBTS went to the length of digging up the body and having it cremated to cover up a supposed molestation by a GB member, it's just all gossip, the kind of thing we criticize the org. for. Anywya, those folks don't care enough for anyone's opinion to cover up anything.
Oh boy,
Let's open a can of worms. I actually thought that Sydlik was a nice guy. He came for a DC, and we were host congregation. I got the chance to go out in service with him. He was very friendly, I was like 18 or 19 at the time. He never actually came on to me at the time, and I wasn't looking for it as I am severely hetero. That being said, if I had any leanings that way, he may have been fishing for a good time. I would like to think not, as that was the only good GB experience that I have, that makes me think one of them may have been decent.
JK
Inkling,
At last we are getting a few more hard facts
However what you have only posted above is only a portion of what Ravyn posted. Here is her complete comments of her April 1, 2003 post:
I went to visit 'bethel' farm where Watchtower prints the magazines etc. I went off the tour to the little private graveyard and saw a fresh grave with a name on it I knew. I asked about it and was told the young man died of an aneurysm. I used to babysit this kid in Georgia when Iwas a teen ager. So I wrote his mother a sympathy letter.
A month later I was subpoenaed to appear in court AGAINST the Watchtower. It seems that Jason died from a suicide and Watchtower was trying to cover it up because it was in response to a gay affair with one of the governing body memebers('apostles')and to keep the parents from getting an autopsy they had exhumed the body and had it cremated and were claiming the grave never existed. BUT--I saw the garve and wrote a letter saying I saw it on such and such date, etc...
Waiting in the motel room for the trial the next day I was visited by legal reps for Watchtower asking me to lie. I asked them what they would do for me if I was put in jail for perjury, they said they could not do anything since they were not even supposed to be there talking to me. so I told them I would not lie.
Farther down in the same thread is another post by Ravyn dated: 02-Apr 03 13:21
country girl--the parents lost the suit. funny thing, when I spoke with Mr. Greenberg at NBC when they were trying to get the Dateline stuff together--he did some reseacrh and found out that the particular hospital where jason may have been taken to was miles out of the way for WTBS and also has a closed file policy on public records. hmmmmmmmm
the last I heard, the mother had been contacted by Silentlambs and she denied ever even having a son named Jason! so someone got paid off.
OK, somebody, I am 3000 plus miles away. Who can check with Mr. Greenberg?
Number 2: Who knows Silent Lambs on a familiar basis to find out the mother's name so then we can verify what Jason R's last name is. After that we can find public records, doctor's reports, coroner's report if available, cadaver transit permits, disinterrment permits etc. So far no one has given us the name of the Watchtower cemetery or what corporation's name. Doing a search on Watchtower Cemetery brings up a Florida Corp. but no details. Cemeteries have to watch their Ps and Qs, If what the WT has allegedly done is a cover up it is a felony.
This is not about how nice guy D. Sidlyk's is, neither about whether he is bi-lingual or not. All he has to say is, I thought that from Jason R's demeaner he was gay, and as GB member I was testing him to see if he was or not. All for Jehovah and his clean organization.
belbab
Nathan:
You say,
4. If there is a crime here, it would be in relation to the relocation and re-disposal of the body. With the cemetery on private land, that will not be an easy thing to prove.
From what I have read, a portion of which I posted on the other thread, there are reams and reams of regulations for Not For Profit Cemeteries. It is not considered, I believe, as private land. They may be open to the public. They are easily found by typing Not For Profit Cemeteries NY State and see what comes up. They are regulated just like commercial cemeteries. Permits are involved. The only thing you can do with a corpse is to move it from one grave to another in the same graveyard without a permit.
I have not yet done a search on Death by Suicide regulations. If the WT has all the permits in place and they are legitimate then we will have to drop it. If not, they are open to investigation, and you the public in the US can demand that it be investigated.
belbab
This subject has been discussed on this Board ad nauseum in the past. Use the search facility for previous long dialogues on the matter.
Yes, restraint is needed, and no, no evidence apart from hearsay has yet been forthcoming. Further, no court records have as yet been found which relate to this case. I am not suggesting that these events, in some form or the other did not occur. I am suggesting that lynch mobs are not very pretty, and usually live to regret their actions.
HS
I did what little research I could at the time to access a possible full name, date of birth, and death.
I am currently working on a project to see if I can obtain confirming documents regarding this incident.
However, that being said, I totally and completely feel this sad suicide incident is true and eventually the documented truth will come out.
The GM members on the Borg are evil and they would, have done, and will continue to cover up their gross sins.
Ronin1
Perhaps someone would like to comment on the google results for Ravyn Giuliani?
I agree that we should dig deeper, there is nothing wrong with verifying facts. Isn't this what we have learned from being JWs and coming to the realization of our errors for not fact-checking the "stated facts" of the WT. If it is real and true it will be real and true.
Y
BELBAB- I for one appreciate you bringing out these other points and printing the whole entirety of what this lady posted. Definitely sounds like hush money was probably paid under the table to keep this young man's mom quiet. I would not put it beyond the Watchtower society to do something like that. That organization is all about outward appearance . I hope some of you who have posted here: who have the time and means to do it are able to research this through and get someone involved to talk
