My personal proof elders are not spirit appointed

by stillajwexelder 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  SnakesInTheTower

  TMS:

  I will site one of my major pet peeves. The "Flock" book and elder manuals before that always described elder meetings as having an "agenda".

  yep..and this is the one that was the beginning of the end for me as an elder. The BOE was (and had been) looking for a way to get me off the BOE ever since my arrival 5 years prior. They attempted it several times with the previous CO and DO without success. A couple months before the new CO visit, we had scheduled our regular quarterly elders meeting to discuss, among other things, the CO visit. A day before the meeting, I received an email from the PO with the agenda attached. Less than 24 hours I had to prepare for a meeting...and some of that time would be at the regular KH meeting, sleep, and work...so essentially I was being ambushed with an agenda that had been rubberstamped ahead of time. The meeting was merely for show.

  I objected to this underhandedness, as I knew all the other elders had their agendas at least 2 or 3 days before me. The PO's excuse was: "maybe your ISP didnt get it to you on time." I told him that I had been calling him asking for an agenda for over a week. Since I did not get it on time..and even 2 or 3 days is not enough notice to go through the agenda, why not move the meeting up a week? He refused. The next day, Friday, I went to a nearby KH where our SO/pioneer was attending a pioneer meeting. I tried to get him to be reasonable. He wouldnt budge and the CO and DO heard the whole conversation. I was made to look bad.

  I told the SO that if I dont have enough time to prepare and research and pray over the matters to be discussed, that there was no reason for me to be there. I boycotted the meeting. Half of what was on that agenda could have been handled by one or two elders (several of which I was supposed to be taking lead on, but they kept yanking the rug from under me.)

  So of course, they removed me. I started to resign, but decided to make them pull the trigger. Yet, one elder is still there that looks at porn and is greedy (sucks people into an MLM..sucks them dry, then dumps them when they arent productive), another elder has an alcoholic gossipy wife but sits on JCs of other alcoholics and judges them.... holy spirit my a$$. The only spirit in that congo is the spirits being drunk!

  Snakes ()
• 

  bikerchic

  NO! Say it ain't so!

  Do you mean to say that Jehovah's Holy Spirit™ was not behind this scenario that played out in the last Congregation I was in:

  DO and CO come to town (small town) for an impromptu JC of the PO in my congregation who was having an affair with a sister who not only was in the same congregation but also worked for the company the PO owned (family JW owned company), got the picture? Oh and her husband also worked for the same company. PO gets not only removed as an elder and PO but is told his company will pay many thousands of dollars to this sister to shut her up as she was threatening a sexual harassment law suit against the JW company!

  He paid or rather the whole family did via the company funds, she and hubby left the B'org never to be seen again! I heard they set up their own church and went apostate! LOL

  Gosh I thought Jehovah loves a bribe when it's to protect his good name from being slammed all over the local papers!
• 

  moshe

  I was appointed an elder at the age of 25 in a small rural Cong. my wife and I moved to- in order to help out in 1973. They needed help, a small group of elders needed help and I was available. That was in 1975- in 1977 I started building a home, my wife and I had a child in 1978 and I resigned in 1978- down deep I knew the elder appointment was a joke, too. It took me 10 more years to find my way out.
• 

  Confession

  HOLY SPIRIT CONVERSATIONS STOPPERS...

  If someone asks why certain decisions are made in the congregation, perhaps you could say...

  "Jehovah's Holy Spirit is "guding and directing" the body of elders."

  If someone wonders why, for example, an elder was appointed who soon after was found to be a pedophile, you could say...

  "When Jehovah's Spirt was "operative" upon the body of elders, this man was likely not a pedophile. He became such only after being appointed. Shouldn't we be thankful that Jehovah has now caused this issue to come to the fore?"

  If someone says, "Hey, I wasn't going to say anything, but when I was a kid, this guy molested me too--and that was 20 years ago!" you might try this one...

  "Well if that is so, you should have informed the elders. In not doing so, you were acting out of harmony with Jehovah's Holy Spirit, which eventually righted the wrong anyway. While you no doubt feel victimized by the forced sodomy you were subjected to, have you ever stopped to think about what you personally may have done to cause this situation?"

  If he then says, "WHAT I MAY HAVE DONE??? I was six years old! This wasn't my fault, you asshole!" you might pull this one out on him...

  "It's easy to point the finger of accusation at others. Remember how Adam tried to deflect attention for having eaten the forbidden fruit by blaming Eve? Rather than minimizing your own actions, you're invited to give prayerful consideration to how tight those little pants were that you used to wear. Don't shake your head at me, brother, because I remember them. And while this man's ass raping you cannot be excused, ask yourself, "Did my snug polyester slacks and the resulting naughty bulges contribute to it all?" And, by the way, if you swear at me again, I'm gathering together a Judicial Committee."

  If he then throws up his hands apologetically and says, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. Seriously, I'm sorry. But can we get back to my question? How was this guy appointed an elder by Holy Spirit if he's been a pedophile for at least 20 years?" you could let this one rip...

  "If it doesn't come out in the wash, it'll come out in the rinse."

  If he then looks astonished and says, "What in the hell is that supposed to mean?!" you need to put on a smug, wise facial expression and say...

  "Jehovah will right matters in His own due time, according to His purposes. And by the way, you swore at me again."

  If he says, "Look please don't have me shunned, I'm sorry! I'm just trying to understand how the Almighty creator of the universe allowed this guy to molest little kids for at least twenty years, and how stopping him earlier wasn't "according to His purposes"?!" you should look disappointed and reach for your cell phone, saying in a condescending, sing-song fashion...

  "Looks like some little tight-pantsed boy wants to challenge Jehovah's channel of communication. Hmm. Might hafta make a little telephone cally wally. Bad little boy might have to get a little spanky spanky..."

  Ordinarily this will bring an end to any further difficult questioning. If he persists, call together a committee, investigating allegations that he's an apostate.
• 

  flipper

  STILLA - It is easy to see elders are not spirit appointed by the decisions they hand down on committee matters and other matters. My 2nd wife ( a non witness) had separated from me in 2003 due to her drug addiction , which the elders knew about. I did not want to take her back as she was volatile, hateful, and had a dangerous temper. I also made this decision to protect my then, teenage children. I had the very prominent presiding overseer tell me in a meeting with 2 other elders, that I should take back my wife and just visit my kids at a neutral spot or place , just don't involve the ballistic wife. He told me, " If your wife wants to be with you , that's a good thing , Just go see your daughters somewhere else. " Brilliant, eh? I told him I thought it was crappy counsel- I would not sacrifice my relationship with my daughters to appease a drug addict ! And I did research in the societies publications which showed me these elders gave totally" shoot off the cuff " counsel to me. I went to my seat before the meeting after meeting with them, picked up my books, and never went back to another meeting. That was 4 years ago. Glad I learned
• 

  dinah

  Reading all these experiences only cements what I had figured out so long ago.

  In my congregation we had two elders appointed by "holy spirit" who were also abusive to their children and wives. Well, I know for a fact one was abusive, the other I am assuming he was because of the problems his adult children have had.

  Elder A was my best friend's father. He had six children, and could by no means afford them. My best friend didn't open up about the abuse until we were in our late 20's, although I had suspected it all along. It was REALLY BAD folks. I spent the night at her house once (refused to go back). He came into our bedroom in the middle of the night and just stood there looking at us. I pretended to be asleep. The hair stood up on the back of my neck--it was SO creepy!!.

  She stayed at my house when we were kids every time she got the chance and she never wanted to go home. She always wished my Dad was her Dad because he was more of a father to her. He was eventually removed from his elderhood because he grew a beard and four of his children had so far left the truth. Only one remains a witness and she just doesn't have the emotional or mental strength to leave.

  All six of Elder A's children have seriously problems dealing with life. I really believe there was sexual abuse going on in that house as well. My friend claims she can't remember it (which is probably true). This sick bastard used to count his daughters' feminine pad boxes to make sure they were having periods and not pregnant. Hmmmmmm, they were hardly allowed to leave the house.

  Elder B had four children, all of which have been df'd. He was a stern person and always had a scowl on his face. He was the angriest man I'd ever known. He never smiled.

  Would "holy spirit" choose men like this to lead a flock? In CoC Ray Franz said the only thing they looked at was service hours and meeting attendance. I believe that.

  I talked to my mom about all this and her only answer was that they were removed as elders so the holy spirit was still operating. Does that mean that Jehovah in his infinite wisdom made a mistake in appointing them? All the circular reasoning she spewed forth just made me throw up my hands.
• 

  stillajwexelder

  thanks for the comments folks
• 

  cultswatter

  Someone is wacking off in the congo. The HS is greived
• 

  restrangled

  It's funny, I don't think anyone takes seriously what happened in the Kingdom halls as posted on this site. People need to wake up!

  I Will give you the history of mine......

  We had a German fellow as the presiding overseer for years. His wife died of cancer, I was at his home as a child after the wake. He married a girl 20 years his junior and after the following revelation he moved to one of the most expensive condos in Chicago on Lake Shore Drive. He had made millions over the years and was able to afford the most luxurious condo going. The company my dad worked for redid the interior of that condo.....thousands were spent on the finest wall papers.

  I was at the assembly where they announced the new structure for "elders" and this fFormer PO stopped and talked to me and my parents.

  I was a teenager then. If anyone figures out who this is or wants to know you can PM me.

  In the mean time there were 7 men somehow appointed as the big elders in our hall after this assembly.

  One was my father......a manic depressive, but very charming, intelligent and able to give great talks......he was undiagnosed at the time.

  Second was a new recruit...who's daughter weighed in at 200 lbs at 10 years old, a very embarrassing situation for all. His wife died of a heart attack at age 40... thin as a rail and a nervous wreck. He was a real jack ass.

  Third was a man who wound up having an affair with a bible study, for whom I babysat...she had 5 kids. This guy was on my comittee wanting me out while continuing his illicet affair.

  Fourth was a reject out of Bethel. He returned at aged 21 and was made an elder.....he wanted me nailed. Ugliest SOB I have ever seen in my life.....an obvious reason for running to Bethel straight out of highschool.

  Fifth, was a fairly nice man with a wife with a great sense of humor......later apologized to me for what happened.

  Sixth was another man and his wife....just seemed normal but very hard lined. His wife was a sweet heart.

  7th, an old German Fart that eventually died.......also threw some pretty wild parties at his home.

  This list Folks, contains the spirit appointed men through the years at the KH I attended until I ran at age 18.

  r.
• 

  TJ - iAmCleared2Land

  HOLY SPIRIT CONVERSATIONS STOPPERS...

  That was terrific, well written. Thanks!