by Honesty 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Since Jesus died first and the curtain in the temple was torn in two did the thief share in the earthly or the heavenly hope?
So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first man and of the other one who had been crucified with Him.
When they came to Jesus, they did not break His legs since they saw that He was already dead.
John 19:32-33
I believe the JW answer would have something to do with the fact that he never partook of the memorial emblems. So no.
Interesting question...
Well if we can prove that the watchtowers lying on the point of the comma - i say unto you today, you will be with me in paradise.I say unto you, today you will be with me in paradise.
Be intresting to see whether the original hebrew and greek scriptures even used commas and other symbols like that.
Honesty,,,,i either love you or jwd or both!!!!!!!!!!!..................oompa
I agree that that is an excellent point. Jesus did precede the thief in death. I think the JW answer is more complicated than that, though. They do think that Jesus sacrifice was made at Calvary, but that 40 days after his resurrection, when he ascended to heaven, he offered the value of his blood to God as high priest and that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was the indication that it had been accepted. That being the case, I don't think they would say technically that anyone who died the same day as Jesus, or within the 40 days before his ascension, would have the heavenly hope. Also, they may feel that he offered his sacrifice to God on the day he was resurrected, which would be symbolized by the Festival of the First Fruits. If this is the case then it would be anyone who died after his resurrection (I think you would be able to find more information about this in that Watch Tower article last year about the festivals).
Now that I think about it, they technically hold that to go to heaven you must be born again by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That being the case, the spirit was not poured out until Pentecost hence no believers had the heavenly hope prior to Pentecost.
*I'm just going to add at this point that I don't agree with all this reasoning. I think Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will eat in the Kingdom of God the same as James, John, and Peter. I had only written the above so that you might get a better understanding of the notions they have that their doctrine is based on.
LayingLow, you have them pegged.
One other thing...
When Jesus had lunch with Zacchaeus how long did he have to study to be saved?
How much did he have to get his life in line with Scripture before Jesus pronounced that salvation had come to his house?
He entered Jericho and was passing through. There was a man named Zacchaeus who was a chief tax collector, and he was rich. He was trying to see who Jesus was, but he was not able because of the crowd, since he was a short man. So running ahead, he climbed up a sycamore tree to see Jesus, since He was about to pass that way. When Jesus came to the place, He looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, hurry and come down, because today I must stay at your house.”
So he quickly came down and welcomed Him joyfully.
All who saw it began to complain, “He’s gone to lodge with a sinful man!”But Zacchaeus stood there and said to the Lord, “Look, I’ll give half of my possessions to the poor, Lord! And if I have extorted anything from anyone, I’ll pay back four times as much!”
“Today salvation has come to this house,” Jesus told him, “because he too is a son of Abraham.
For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save the lost.”Luke 19:1-10
I know it's written somewhere in the WT literature, but I don't look many things up these days
so someone else will have to.
The WTS taught me that this thief did not have a history of faithfulness nor a timely conversion
that allowed him to demonstrate his faith, so OF COURSE he will be given the resurrection to
life on earth where he can learn about God's kingdom then be judged at the final test.
They teach such because
A. they want to tell non-JW's that it is vital to first learn about Jehovah before you can be accepted.
(Don't worry, they will offer to teach you for free.)
B. they don't want newbies thinking they can be anointed.
C. they are building up to "demonstrating your faith" thru magazine sales and baptism.
Since Jesus died first and the curtain in the temple was torn in two did the thief share in the earthly or the heavenly hope?
He partakes of the heavenly hope, and he will partake of the earthly one after the Last Day. I do not believe there are two destinations for those that Christ saves.
Burn
He partakes of the heavenly hope, and he will partake of the earthly one after the Last Day. I do not believe there are two destinations for those that Christ saves.
Burn
Amen, brother.
Revelation 21:2 tells it like it is no matter how the spin doctors in Brooklyn twist it.
The apostles followed Jesus right from the start and as far as I know they had never heard of him and they were promised to be with him in heaven. It seems that Jesus picks who he wants, there may be no set criteria. With the holy spirit a person may get an instant education about Jesus. You may not have to go through the ordeal that the jws put you through to accept Jesus. The trouble with religion in general is that they can create pre-conceived ideas in people's minds that are hard to remove later on. That is why everyone should search the scriptures their selves.
