WTS Encourages Hatred 1.12.01WT (page 2)

ISP

Earnest said..

You neglected to include the footnote, ISP, which says :
"Jehovah himself feels this disgust. For example, Ephesians 4:29 describes bad language as 'rotten saying.' The Greek word used for 'rotten' literally refers to putrefying fruit, fish, or meat. Such a term vividly portrays the repulsion that we should feel toward abusive or obscene speech. Likewise, idols are often described in the Scriptures as 'dungy.' (Deuteronomy 29:17; Ezekiel 6:9) Our natural aversion to dung, or excrement, helps us to understand God's feeling of disgust for any form of idolatry."

The footnote is wholly irrelevant. It relates to the 'b' part of the question 4b'How does Jehovah feel about sinful conduct?(See footnote.) It does not bear on the matter of hatred that Christians are to cultivate.

Earnest then said...

So while it is true that the quotation from the lexicon described the Hebrew word for "hatred" as being "an emotional attitude towards persons and things", which is similar to the English meaning, the emphasis in the article is not on hating people but on hating "what is bad in Jehovah's eyes", namely idolatry, jealousy, immorality, greed, pride.

Earnest,you are quite mistaken. I am discussing the statements made in this paragraph. They are there for all to see. The question was 'What hatred should Christians cultivate?' The answer is given in the lexicon definition of hatred. Not elsewhere.

He then said

You do yourself no justice to take a line out of an article and misrepresent what is being said.

Not at all. The question on the paragraph was 'What hatred should Christians cultivate? The answer to that if you follow the paragraph in typical JW braindeadedness is to say ...'Proverbs 8.13 says the fear of Jehovah means the hating of bad..and a bible lexicon says that this hatred is ..etc. This is the hatred Christians are to cultivate.'

No misrepresentation there.

ISP

BTW The WTS should watch out - inciting hatred on religious grounds is to be outlawed in the UK by new legislation. The articles will be scrutinised very carefully!

outnfree

Earnest,

I agree with you that the THINGS Jehovah hates are what the Bible teaches a Christian should also hate as bad.

However, I don't think ISP was amiss in his conclusion that the particular paragraph in the 12/01/01 WT is telling Christians to cultivate hatred towards

persons and things which are opposed, detested, despised and with which one wishes to have no contact or relationship.’

Or how would YOU underline the paragraph in response to this study?

In this discussion it matters not what you, personally, believe, Earnest. You may hate no man, and only abhor wicked things or practices and be trying your best to be a non-judgmental, loving, footstep follower of Christ.

Nevertheless, the paragraph DOES mention hating persons when Jesus clearly stated one should "love ones enemies" and that there was nothing special in being good to one's brothers. (Matthew 5:43-48, especially verses 46 & 47.)

outnfree

Par dessus toutes choses, soyez bons. La bonte est ce qui ressemble le plus a Dieu et ce qui desarme le plus les hommes -- Lacordaire

Earnest

outnfree,

I have to agree that were I in the habit of underlining the paragraph I would come up with the answer that Christians are to "cultivate hatred towards persons and things which are opposed, detested, despised and with which one wishes to have no contact or relationship."

I would still maintain that the tenor of the article is not on hating people but on hating "what is bad in Jehovah's eyes", namely idolatry, jealousy, immorality, greed, pride...and I think that is the conclusion most will draw from the material...but I also concede ISP was not misrepresenting that paragraph and apologise for too rash a conclusion.

Earnest

ISP

Hey Earnest,

I think you will find the R+F just gulp down the parag. on hatred. Hatred of persons....is not good..and I am afraid...wholly unChristian. The duty of care is squarely with the publishers..the WTS. There is no reason to connect hatred to people unless it is their intention. If their intention was different they should have said...'of course true Christians do not hate people...etc.' But that is absent. This is really quite unacceptable in the current climate.

ISP

Pureheart

We have to excuse Earnest and Accuracy right now for their innocent defending of something that they have not experienced negative treatment from yet. They haven't had their behinds "kicked" yet. I used to be the same way, as many of you problably were. And still I can't seem to break those chains: "Yasah Boss, ya wont me to shine yo shoes".

Pureheart

Rex B13

Six/ninths,
C'mon. Tell me you do not know the correct context of 'hate one's family' and what it actually means?
I'll let you correct yourself, if you value your own integrity.
Rex

Lionel_P_Hartley

I haven't read the article, but I do think that Earnest has a point. In all my time as a JW the emphasis was on hating "things" or "behavious" and not "people." Of course, the reality is that the acts JWs perform, e.g., shunning, are essentially the same as hating; nevertheless, JWs don't generally consider that they hate the person and will accept anyone back who repents according to JW rules.

I can also see the logic of quoting a dictionary's definition in its entirety and then using or emphasizing only one of the possible definitions. After all, what would a definition of hatred be if it didn't include the possibility of it referring to people. To me, too much is being read into this article, at least based on what I've read so far.

Lionel

SixofNine

WrecksB13yrsOldemotionally, I suppose you are implying that whatever else I believe, I should not assume that Jesus meant what he said?

Is this that freakish moment in time were "hate" really means "love less", a la the Watertower Backhoe and Tractor Society?

larc

Accurate,

Yes, I am judging you. You are arragant and condescending. I know the Bible as well as you and I know more about your religion than you do, especially it's history. Not pride on my part, just fact.

Since you know the Bible well, you might read the book of Joshua rather than my summary. Fact is, it is a book of terror and destruction. Joshua destroyed hundreds of towns, every man, woman, and child. He was much more efficient than Hitler and Stalin. Of course, he had the blood thirsty blessing of Jehovah.

Of course, Jesus quoted from the OT, but not that often. He pointed out that love of God and man was more important than the rest of the law. He pointed out that saving a man's life on the Sabbath was more important than the Sabbath law. He gave very little emphasis to the law of the OT.

Questions:

1. Why did Lot's wife die for looking back while Lot got drunk and had sex with his two daughters and never was punished?

2. How can the story of Noah and the Ark be true. Caculate the Ark's demensions, length of time in the Ark, and number of species and tell my how this could be true.

3. Why is the geneology of Jesus different in two gospel accounts?

4. Why is Jesus' lineage given through Joseph, when Joseph was not his father?

5. Why wasn't David disfellowshipped by Jehovah for putting another man to death so David could have the man's wife? Why was he not punished for raping his half sister? I guess it didn't take much in those days to be the apple of God's eye.

6. Why does your religion have a 122 year history of failed prophecy?

One other question, if you know the history of your religion, please tell me the purpose of Beth Sarim.

Just a few questions off the top of my head.

larc

up top for accuracy to see

WTS Encourages Hatred 1.12.01WT

Share this