Hi changeling,
"Chalam: I don't think anyone on this board wants to be preached to. Your intentions may be good. You may honestly believe that it's your duty to save our souls from the torments of hell or whatever. But we are not interested. Give it up."
If saying what my beliefs are is deemed as preaching then so be it. It is a free world and you are free to believe what you believe and me too.
Also you are free to read my posts or not and flame me or not as you wish, but as to silence my freedom of speech I do not accept and would you either?
Think about how you would feel if I was telling you to 'give it up' because I didn't agree with you.
With love,
Stephen
It's Possible! (A Conversation After Death)
by journey-on 25 Replies latest jw friends
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Chalam
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changeling
Chalam: I'm sorry. I did not mean to limit you freedom of speech, nor do I want mine limited either.
However, I think there is a difference between expressing an opinion and "preaching". I get the distinct impression from your posts (and the ones on this thread are a great example) that you are here to prove others wrong and to convert them to your way of thinking.
I realize that you were never a JW, but please understand that most posters on this forum were. As such, we perfected the "art of preaching" and most of us are sick of it.
If I wanted to be indoctrinated in things that make no sense, I'd go to church.
Again, I'm sorry, but I don't think you really understand the mindset of exJW's.
changeling
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Chalam
Hi again changeling,
Thanks for your reply and your peace.
I understand your aversion to many of the things I am saying. On the surface they would appear to be close to what the WT doctrine but we are like chalk and cheese, night and day. If you came to my church you would see it is totally different to ANY Kingdom Hall meeting. Or to see me talking with them on my doorstep only this very morning. Even the WT agrees!
All the things they teach are against what I read in my Bible. My beliefs at at the opposite of what they say in these fundamental things. Who is Jesus? Who is the Holy Spirit? Who can show you what the Bible means? What happens after we die etc. etc.
There is NO proof, God requires faith and thus does not supply proof or other He would shout things out of the Heavens more often and come and show Himself in all His glory. But He does give us some huge clues if we truly want to know Him ;)
I have a lot of empathy with JWs, I would say God has given me some of His love for them. I have a good friend who is a JW and as I have got to grips with what they believe, all I see is twisted truths and downright lies. I understand people's aversion to 'preaching', be it JWs, Mormons and the like. There is nothing in the Bible to say 'preaching' is to be done either (door to door), only condemnation for the people that do it (2 Timothy 3).
I am truly saddened at the damage that the WT has afflicted, spiritually, emotionally and sometimes even physically. And IMHO, great damage has been done to ex JWs. Many who are mad at the talk of God or the Bible but God's love will make everything new-look out, verses follow, skip them if you prefer :)
1 Corinthians 13 (New International Version)
Love
1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8Love never fails.
Indoctrination is the worst and it won't get you into the Kingdom Of God either! Only faith in Jesus and being born again, but there goes my belief's again ;)
I grew up with these beliefs but I never followed them for 20 years so I have plenty of time to make up my own mind.
Two years ago I decided to check it out and read the Bible. I had felt God calling me and talking to me throughout the years but I long resisted anything about God or the Bible, much like some of the ex JWs here.
As I mentioned before, you really will know the truth and it will set you free. I still am dealing with some issues but God is loving and patient. And I am a happy man these days, happy to be alive and at peace. From the me of the last 20 years that is like night and day.
All the best.
WIth love again.
Stephen -
edmond dantes
Hi Journey-on,
Very well put and a must read for every JW .Keep chipping away and you never know who it might influence out there.
The peddlars of falsehood need every bit of insight that comes their way.
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bebu
A very potent allegory! Very well-written. ala Ebert and Roper. (And ya know, the sorrow in the separate room sure seems akin to hell... )
Love is more than just a word to say, or a , of course. Whether people choose to LIVE it or not is more revealing than their professed creed.
Hey Chalam, though I understand your sensitivity here, I don't think journeyon was trying to proclaim a strict doctrine so much as illustrate how love is a real and recognizable thing in practice. Like you, I don't believe in the Mormon-like return to the spiritual realm idea, but I don't think he was really preaching that so much as how devastating it will be to realize that one's whole life missed the point of what s/he preached.
bebu
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Brother Apostate
Very well written journey-on!! It is very much like what I imagine, based on my studies, to be awaiting us. As an adherent of Scripture, the only thing I'd question is the ending, that is, it is uncertain how God will judge. It's nonetheless very thought-provoking, and should be required reading for all dubs, as well as all who are not awake to their spritual needs. I know there have been countless threads on the subject already, so I'll simply congratulate you on a job well done.
BA- Cheers!