My Current Battle

by KW13 45 Replies latest jw friends

  • KW13
    KW13
    Asking a question with no answer is better than having to answer a question you cannot answer. Does that make sense?

    It is late so after reading that sentence three times, yes it does make sense

    I left the JWs because I found so much conflict between what they teach and what the bible says. I wanted to serve God the right way. In the few years since my fade, I've bounced between intensive bible study, visiting other churches, and most of all, trying to understand why God allows all the suffering we see on earth. I don't believe the bible is inspired anymore.

    My journey has taken me somewhere completely different than where I envisioned it would. Right now, I am not sure that God exists, but if he does, I am convinced that he has no strict requirement that humans worship him in a specific way. How could he?? We don't have an inborn knowledge that God is out there - we're taught he is. Depending on your country of birth, God could be One, or millions, or a trinity, or whatever. You could spend your entire life studying the subject in depth, and still not know.

    If God wanted us to worship him in one specific way, it would be 'inborn' in us somehow, like a 'spiritual conscience', sort of. We'd simply know the right way to worship him. But, we don't.

    Right now I'm torn between believing that we can worship God any way we want (ie, he doesn't care, as long as we pay attention to him), or believing that he doesn't care if we worship at all. Or becoming an athiest. I can't quite go there yet. But it's a journey, and I can change my mind at any time. And so can you!

    A lot of interesting and important points raised, like you i went looking for God again after leaving the Witnesses and i've arrived somewhere i didn't think i had within me. Atheism, its something i find myself considering more and more often. As someone said in this thread, maybe i am an atheist and i just can't accept it right now. While i sometimes hate the fact i am faced with this choice, i wouldnt give up my ability to choose for the world. I have a choice in this for the first time with no safety net the decision is actually at some point going to be mine to make properly when i am ready.

    Good question. The answers are yes, yes and yes.

    Atheism is not a belief, it's simply acknowledging that one doesn't think there's enough evidence to believe (in a sky-daddy as defined or created by various cultures).

    I've often compared it to belief in Santa Claus. Once you lose that belief, are you now a "believer" that there is no Santa Claus? Or have you just reached what you believe to be a rational conclusion (of non-belief)?

    I'm glad it allows for me to be open-minded. That was one of my worries, although believing in God i suppose makes me closed-minded in many regards, rightly or wrongly. (Sky-Daddy lol, i love that).

    Santa and God...i've never compared them but i am going to go away from my Computer tonight doing just that - honestly, i mean that respectfully. As a child i believed in the magic Santa did and i even saw 'results'. Is God so different from Santa? I suppose i'm just going to have to stop being a wimp and honestly face the subject.

    Atheism allows for an open mind. It allows for ANY and ALL possibilities! including the possibility of an as yet unknown God and spirituality and whatever is good in any religion. It is not deluded though. It is "awareness".

    Cog

    Got it that makes it all a bit easier because it kinda felt like closing the door and bolting it shut 'forever'. Maybe i'll be one of the guys falling into the cracks of the earth inside a Watchtower Magazine someday

  • Eliveleth
    Eliveleth
    Am i a Christian or am i not? If i am not, what am i?

    I think we all have that thought when we first are delivered from the WT mentality. We all have doubts that Jehovah and His organization are the true religion.

    When we first came out, my husband did not attend any church, but I became associated with an interdenominational Christian women's group. Later we both attended a church.

    Now we do not go to any church. We realized that organized religion is not necessarily Christianity. I believe there are Christians in different religions, but that it is not necessary to

    attend church to be saved. Having doubts, I would suggest that because the Bible says, "If you believe in the Lord Jesus, you will be saved", just ask Him, tell Him what you are thinking

    and ask for direction. You don't offend God by questioning, regardless of what the WT says. Unlike the WT, Jesus loves you unconditionally. He knows you are having doubts. You don't have to fear about

    dealing with this because God will not condemn you. Read Romans 8, I think it will set your mind at ease.

    Personally I think a lot of people feel empty because they are praying to Jehovah. I believe that the Jehovah of the WT is a FALSE GOD. The things they teach about Him, I believe are not found in the Bible.

    If you do research on the name, you will find that it is a "made up" name, not the name of the God of the Bible.

    It takes time to orient our thinking once we leave. We are still to a large degree, in the WT because of the way we feel and believe. It takes time. Just step back, relax and not try to push. God will not pressure

    you. He knows your heart. You are not failing. God is just waiting. Please don't feel like you have to get involved in a religion to please God. I think that God really heard you when you were being real and shouting

    at Him. He doesn't get offended by our emotions, He made us, He knows us, He loves us. I do not claim to know why some prayers are not answered in the way we expect them to. I lost a wonderful little grandson

    at the age of 5 and I asked God that myself. I believe he is with Jesus. I have come to believe that "the good do die young". They are the ones that escape. Don't be afraid. God will show you the way.

    Love and hugs,

    Velta

  • The-Borg
    The-Borg

    we cant prove the existance or non existance of god, currently i think its PROBABLE that he does exist, but this throws up all sorts of other questions about his nature, about why he allows the world to continue as it does with huge amounts of suffering and injustice.

    This for me is the pivotal question. The jw reasoning that he allows this to prove he is a good ruler and clear his good name doesnt hold water with me, actually i think it proves the opposite. At the moment i just cant think of ANY logical or rational reason why an all powerful and LOVING god would tolerate this situation.

    Has anybody got any ideas?

    Regards.

  • KW13
    KW13

    Thank you for your post. My feeling about God and Jesus right now i'm not sure, but i will certainly take into consideration what you've said, thats a promise. As for not being condemned, yes that is a comforting thought thank you

    we cant prove the existance or non existance of god, currently i think its PROBABLE that he does exist, but this throws up all sorts of other questions about his nature, about why he allows the world to continue as it does with huge amounts of suffering and injustice.

    This for me is the pivotal question. The jw reasoning that he allows this to prove he is a good ruler and clear his good name doesnt hold water with me, actually i think it proves the opposite. At the moment i just cant think of ANY logical or rational reason why an all powerful and LOVING god would tolerate this situation.

    Has anybody got any ideas?

    Regards.

    i am in the same boat mate, maybe we should both just take the plunge and see where the river takes us.

  • The-Borg
    The-Borg
    i am in the same boat mate, maybe we should both just take the plunge and see where the river takes us.

    Yes, just hope i don't drown!

    My wife was brought up as a witness, she finds it VERY painful to talk about. Being a witness and having that nice neat little package of faith and certainty can leave a big void in your life when it is taken away from you. Sometimes i wonder if i should have taked the blue pill instead?

    Regards

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    We might be at a similar place in the struggle that inevitably follows a cult-exit.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/150831/1.ashx

    Wishing you well - and peace.

    Jeff

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    KW13, am I mistaken or are you the person who wrote me such beautiful PM's about your church and cell group?

  • VoidEater
    VoidEater

    When I left the WTS, I was determined to not take on beliefs about God from anyone - that I would have to rely only upon what I perosnally experienced.

    I have experienced a lot of things. Even if I choose to derive meaning from these experiences and transform them into "beliefs" about what is so, none of what I have seen suggests a God like mainstream Christianity's.

    Is that scary? To lay down beliefs inculcated since birth? To admit that there are big unknowns? Yes, of course. Both because it attacks the most fundamental "truths" that went into my pysche, and because anything unknown is anathema to the mind. The intellect wants to know! It demands to know! It's what it exists for.

    The unknown can be awful, or awe-inspiring. It can be a vacuum or it can be an empty tablet. It's hard to see the inspirational and invitational when you've been taught all your life that God is there, manipulating things, granting grace, making it all right.

    But then - as soon as you allow God's foot in the door, and ascribing cures and blessings to Him, you must immediately also acknowledge then that He is also the source of disease and damnation. For every prayer answered there is one unanswered. Gopher's 50% observation applies.

    So what is "safer" to believe in then? A fickle, arbitrary God? Or the Atheist view of an unproven God? It feels better to me to allow an absent God does not hear my prayers than to believe I am unheard.

    Belief is just a thought in the mind. It serves a purpose, fills a hole, soothes a fear.

    What life is really more concerned with is the quality of your soul, if you will - what you feel in your heart. Your capacity for kindness and compassion. The sorts of actions you are performing in the world, how you are treating your fellow man. That's where the measure of your humanity and your convictions truly live.

    Belief should come from meaning, and meaning comes in hindsight. Living in the moment, feeling what your experience is telling you now, is of primary import.

    I've lost my belief in "God". I've gained a life of compassion.

  • VoidEater
    VoidEater

    Almost forgot: Are you a Christian?

    I would think the definition a Christian is one who follows the example of Christ. If you hold Jesus as a model and endeavor to follow in his footsteps, then I would say that indeed makes you a Christian.

    But that's really something I can't answer for you. If depends on how you define "Christian". I would leave that for you to determine.

    I would call you a friend either way.

  • Gopher
    Gopher
    At the moment i just cant think of ANY logical or rational reason why an all powerful and LOVING god would tolerate this situation.

    Has anybody got any ideas?

    If God exists and actually cares about project Earth, He is either not all-powerful because he cannot change the situation, or he is not all-loving to tolerate this situation as you describe it.

    The deist position is to say God exists but does not care about project Earth, actually he's off somewhere else doing something else. That would imply he got the ball rolling on the evolution of the species, and then perhaps went off to one of the other billions of galaxies for whatever reason.

    The atheist would simply say there's not convincing evidence that any of the above is true.

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