PS: I am DA JW and I still serve the One True Living God. As Many apostles showed and Jesus stated that the words of Isaiah “have been fulfilled today,” shows that the best possible blessings have already come to pass!
salvation seekers
by DIM 22 Replies latest jw friends
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NameWithheld
When people say the only reason they want to live is to praise god I begin to question their grip on reality, and their sanity. Or I just plain don't buy the BS they are selling.
People want to live in a paradise earth because they plain and simple fear death. Which is not abnormal, any sane person doesn't WANT to die. But to cloak that in saying "I want to live to vindicate gods name" is BS - and if you DO really beleive it, you are BS'ing yourself. You want to live beause the prospect of death frightens you.
The really sad part is that due to your fear of death, you are not truely living life. You are giving your life to a human organization to do with what they want. Sad.
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Julie
:The really sad part is that due to your fear of death, you are not truely living life. You are giving your life to a human organization to do with what they want. Sad.
This is an excellent point!!! On the bet that immortality can be had many waste their entire lives trying to attain it. Little do they realize they waste what little they get. The sad irony of it all.
Julie
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Escargot
Well, the “Farther of the lie” put it this way: “skin in behalf of skin.” However look at Job and look at the three Hebrews who were thrown in the fire, look at Daniel, thrown to the lions, look at the Apostle Paul, beheaded for the good new’s sake—There are persons who do love YHWH and Christ, and would give their life because of the “moral worth” factor (Read Kant for a full discussion on Moral Worth.). The record states other wise...............
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scumgrief
Dim: paradise earth hope = active JW's.
I'm seriously not trying to sound cocky but....DUH!
The hope of a immortal life in paradise is one of the main things that drives JW's. That IS our personal goal after all. To be worthy before God to receive his blessings.
Julie, I can honestly say as a JW, that I live a very happy life, and get to do anything I would ever want to, I don't feel I've wasted anything.
scum
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pettygrudger
This is the main point of the JW's selling isn't it? Eternal life on paradise on earth - who wouldn't want it? Now, here's what you gotta do to get it.......
This is one of the main reasons I have not returned to the WTBTS - the stuff they're selling. They don't come to the door asking if anyone would like to get to know God. They don't come to the door asking if one has a relationship w/God, and if they do not, would they like direction towards that area. The first thing usually out of their mouths (conversation starters) is about crime, environmental issues, wars, world peace, etc. Then they tell you God has offered hope for the future, a hope without any of the above. But, in order to get "it", here's what you gotta do...........and if you don't, you'll be just like these (people falling into the pits of the earth). To say that isn't causing the members of the WTBTS to serve under false pretenses - they joined under false pretenses.
This preys upon the weak. It preys upon the depressed, the down trodden, and the ones in need.
If the JW's were truly interested in God, then they would be studying the bible, and not all the literature they sell. They would also be teaching others how to come to an "informed" opinion, not then imposing what they can/cannot study in order to make an informed opinion.
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Frenchy
Interesting comments. I can see nothing wrong with wanting to live forever under the conditions advertised by Jehovah's Witnesses. I would seriously consider someone rather deranged for not wanting to live under those conditions. That God would set certain requirements of individuals in order to achive that life does not seem totally illogical either.
So let's say a person buys into it. (I'm smiling because I know someone who did!) This person lives his life in a manner which is consistent with what he has been convinced is crucial to his attaining this paradise. We'll assume that this person is wholesouled and is totally convinced. Instead of spending Saturdays fishing,like his worldly neigbor does, he goes out in service and then he conducts a couple of Bible studies and then he comes home and studies the Watchtower lesson for Sunday. He likes to fish but he 'knows' that what he did today was very important. He feels good about the 'sacrifice' he made by doing what he feels is his duty before God.
His neigbor, who does not believe in God or the hereafter, spends his weekends in delightful activites all of which bring him great joy and satisfaction. Our Witness friend, well he spends his weekends in field service and meeting attendance. This brings him great joy and satisfaction because he 'knows' that he's doing what God requires of him and that one day...well, he'll have eternity to do whatever it is that he wants to do.
One day the worldly neighbor is on his deathbed. He knows that his end has come and he reviews his life. He's enjoyed himself whenever he could and experienced many of the pleasures of life. He has no regrets, he's lived a good life. But this is it. It's finished now and he will soon become non-existent forever more.
On that day or one like it, our witness friend finds himself in the same situation. He's dying. He knows his end has come and now he reviews his life. He knows that he has deprived himself of many of life's pleasures in the pursuit of what he 'knows' God wanted him to do. He fought the fine fight, he remained faithful, he has no regrets about what he did and didn't do. He feels great satisfaction in knowing that he did it right. Soon now he'll be closing his eyes and he 'knows' that as soon as the last though perishes from his mind that he will instantly awaken in paradise, a perfect world full of perfect people with peace and harmony everywhere.
The point has to be argued here that it really doesn't matter at all whether our witness friend every gets resurrected. If he doesn't, he'll never know that he was wrong now, will he? He will have died thoroughly convinced that he was coming back and that is really all that matters. He will experience no terror at the thought of death for he 'knows' that it's only temporary. Our worldly neighbor, however, has no such 'knowledge' and must deal with his reality.
Which one is better off at that time?
-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
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barry
I beleive the gospel is like this, Adam sinned and that brought death to the whole human race but was that my fault or your fault? Of course it wasnt. But Jesus paid the price for the sin of the whole world and you or I also had nothing to do with that. The only think we can do is to accept his salvation. This gives us the verdict of not guilty in the last judgement. Good works such as witnessing or anything else are done because we are allready saved not because we are trying to impress God with our works. In fact our best works are like filthy rags as it says in the old testament. Any attempt to save ourselves by our own works are effected by our own selfishness and are an insult to God.
Good works are however important to the christian not because we want to be saved but because we are allready saved and many could learn from the work the witnesses do in their dedication to the time and effort they put into witnessing but they will never be saved by anything they do it has allready been done.
lll
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Frenchy
So, barry, respectfully, I have to ask: What is the point of all of this? Adam sinned and Jesus nullified that act. That puts us right back where we were before Adam sinned. Now what? Why the woes? What was the point? What has been accomplished if we simply have to do nothing but benefit from what someone else has done?
-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
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4horsemen
Nicely illustrated argument Frenchy.
What did Solomon say? Ah, yes, something about sheol and vanity. Pretty much what we have today. It's amazing that so many JW's think XJW's are unhappy because they are unhappy people and now that they have rejected "the truth"(tm), it's evident that there is something wrong with them. When it would be more accurate to say they were unhappy with a JW life and all that brought. Doesn't mean they cant be happy or that WTS is wrong. Just wrong for them. The interesting part of the illusion (or delusion) is that neither knows for there is no Witness life, or worldly life or any other kind of life. Just life. If you're happy being a JW, great. If not, great too. To say one form of life is better or more worthy than others is an insult to all simple men and women of honor who when they die, the loss of their presence in this world (the only one we have) diminishes us all.