resident mormons: "Big Love"?

by inkling 40 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  FormerMormon

  Thanks for your comments Dave. While the specifics of abuse are different, the tools and tactics of our respective cults are very similar. A year ago I never would have thought I would feel such kinship with ex JW's.

  The scary admission is... I still go to the Mormon church. If you peruse postmormon.org or exmormon.org, there are actually a lot of us in recovery WHILE WE STILL ATTEND THE CULT--weekly. I go (just to Sacrament Meeting), because my wife is still a believer. Many of us stay for cultural or family reasons. I haven't tithed since June, when the web started opening my eyes. As I begin to recognize cultish tools, it has become increasingly difficult to go without wanting to stand up and scream "bullshit"!!! I am reading some things with my wife, and I think she is starting to think "WTF" on some of the troubling things in LDS history. Wish me luck, and kind wishes in your recovery.

  FM
• 

  seven006

  Former,
  
  Except for the ex-sociologist, the ex-JW’s and ex-Mormons are the most active in using the Information Era’s tools to expose the wolves in sheep’s clothing. It is not the Mormons or even the JW”s that are the problem. It is the governing body of power and glory hungry old men that control the two groups of good hearted and well meaning people that are the problem.
  
  Outside of the obvious dogma programming techniques, the same techniques of positioning and branding used by the advertising industry to sell soap and beer are used to control the minds of the minority religions flocks. The most effective aspect of positioning is the average consumer doesn’t have a clue it is being used. Neither does the average sheep.
  
  I have looked at both post mormon.org and exmormon.org I wanted to try and join exmormon.org a while back to be able to exchange ideas and ask questions but part of the prerequisite posted on the site before joining is you had to be, or have been a Mormon. I am/was not, nor ever will be. One cult like high control group in a life time is more than enough.
  
  BTW, I am no longer in recovery. Iv been out for over 23 years. I’m just here for the laughs and to help out a little when I can.
  
  There are a lot of “still goers” here too for all the same reasons as you, don’t worry about it. Everybodys gotsta do what they gotsta do.
  
  
  Take care,
  
  
  Dave
• 

  oldflame

  Former Mormon,

  Oldflame asked about Mormons believing the Bible and the Hell the bible described... I'm surprised you asked... being a former member and all

  Yes I knew this I just wanted Susanhere to answer it for me, I was hoping to get someone to begin thinking.
• 

  Qcmbr

  Hey I like the style of the 'enlightened' ones let's see how it goes:
  
  Slam the poster / their belief / throw around a few tough guy words. In particular start defining what the poster's ulterior motives are. Don't bother about alternatives - just make it up as you go and dare anyone to contradict you.
  
  Then in the best twist of all have the audacity to suggest that any defence of the posters (whether it be to correct, balance or merely refute) is cult methodology. You guys don't look in the mirror much.
  
  Hell is both a place (Outer Darkness - please refer to previous posts regarding what that is) and a state of being - thus you can quite possibly create hell here by your attitude and actions or by the environment you find yourself in (it may well not be your choice.) Not achieving your potential is likened to a state of hell and damnation because you will always be aware of what you are (better) than where you are - a bit like a champion runner dropping out of the race due to apathy and having to watch others take the medals. Heaven is split into many 'mansions' or degrees and failing to reach the highest may be considered hell even though each 'mansion' is supposedly very desirable (no more death and pain.)
  
  It really is as simple as that.
• 

  seven006

  Old,
  
  Susanhere (from what I can see from her posts) is in a state of “oblivious utopia”. She is not aware of, can reason out, or accept anything that will get her to “think” outside of her present state of programmed consciousness no matter how much logic and reasoning you offer up.
  
  It would be like you trying to reason with Tom Cruise as he is jumping up and down on Opra’s couch. It aint gonna happen. She is oblivious to accepting anything outside of her programmed Mormon thoughts. It is a state of existence that is not only consistent with other high control groups and cult like minority religions but is essential for their existence. It is also an altered state of consciousness that got the group of followers at Heavens Gate and the Peoples Temple to do what they did.
  
  She aint gonna take the bait. She can’t even see it.
  
  
  Dave
• 

  Shawn10538

  I have stated here before that I am absolutely ASTOUNDED that a person can be a participant on this board and a practicing/believing Mormon. To not see the obvious and blatant correlation between Mormons, JWs and all other cults is the very height of delusion, self manipulation and blindness. The cult member, (in this case a Mormon) is completely submerged in the cult rhetoric and cannot see the forrest for the trees. Such a person could get a visit from Joseph Smith himself and have that ghost tell the cult member that the church was completely made up and no more real than Santa Claus, and that person will still not get the sense of it.
  
  Just as in this thread the cult member actually proceded to do exactly as the ex-Mormon predicted she would, and yet she doesn't even see her own complete contradiction. Such blindness is obviously a reaction to cognitive dissonance. Such a person is grasping for straws, desperate to prove herself right and not look ignorant. Truth is not at issue here because the cult member is an apologist who has already decided in advance of all evidence the conclusion to which they will reach. From there it's just a matter of explaining away all new evidence, which can be done by anybody from any religion.
  
  The fact that a Mormon has gained enough credibility to run for president is the most distressing news I have heard in many years. I will probably post about Romney on anopther thread. I think as a nation we really need to get the truth out about Mormonism and emphasize that no sane person could ever be a Mormon, so on that basis alone we should reject Romney as president (or any public office for that matter.)
• 

  FormerMormon

  QCMBR,

  You said:

  Hey I like the style of the 'enlightened' ones let's see how it goes:
  
  Slam the poster / their belief / throw around a few tough guy words. In particular start defining what the poster's ulterior motives are. Don't bother about alternatives - just make it up as you go and dare anyone to contradict you.
  
  Then in the best twist of all have the audacity to suggest that any defence of the posters (whether it be to correct, balance or merely refute) is cult methodology. You guys don't look in the mirror much.
  
  Hell is both a place (Outer Darkness - please refer to previous posts regarding what that is) and a state of being - thus you can quite possibly create hell here by your attitude and actions or by the environment you find yourself in (it may well not be your choice.) Not achieving your potential is likened to a state of hell and damnation because you will always be aware of what you are (better) than where you are - a bit like a champion runner dropping out of the race due to apathy and having to watch others take the medals. Heaven is split into many 'mansions' or degrees and failing to reach the highest may be considered hell even though each 'mansion' is supposedly very desirable (no more death and pain.)
  
  It really is as simple as that.

  You are really talking in vague terms and vague accusations. Can you be more clear on WHICH poster and what they did that can be identified or argued as incorrect? I and other posters have, in the past, spoken of cultish tools used by the Morg and KH. I have spoken specifically of isolation techniques, hope/fear whiplash, rewriting/lieing about historical events, dividing family for non conformity, etc. Others have posted about KH "managing" their history.

  It is interesting to see that FLDS leader Warren Jeffs has, on video, admitted he was never a prophet. Still people continue to attend FLDS meetinghouses. I am astounded by the blindness of family members and Mormon posters here. I can have an open copy of Church History in front of them showing lies preached by Joseph's Myth. Lies which hurt the reputations of others. The god I want to believe in does not work that way. Still, believing Morgs refuse to read it out of the own Church History, or JOD, or journals, etc.

  Like other posters have said, I am amazed be LIE ving mormons would frequent this board.

  I still cant get my Stake President, Bishop, SusanHere, QCMBR or anyone to answer any of thew serious accusations against the LDS church. Could it be because there is no defense? My stake president can't/wont answer my questions. Until he can, he wants ME to refrain from talking to MY kids about the church at all. I call BULLSH1T.

  QCMBR, I've heard all the pretzel thought you gave about what hell is-- not having a celestial home as nice as the jones next door, not fufilling your potential, etc. You are ignoring the fact that there are independent descriptions of hell in mormon standard works that are in contradiction to each other. WHY ISN"T THE THREE DEGREES MENTIONED IN THE BOM??? PREEXISTENCE? ETERNAL MARRIAGE? WORD OF WISDOM? TEMPLE WORK? The "nephites" had this knowledge and more... remember they had more light and truth than we... and it's in the sealed portion of the mythical gold plates. They had more truth, yet the HUGE cornerstones of mormonism failed to be mentioned in a thousand year historical "record". BULLSHlT!!
• 

  Qcmbr

  I point out what you do and I get three posters do the same thing again!!! Sheesh.
  
  FM - I'm not talking in vague terms - I was quite specific. Please read and think. I try to credit people with a modicum of basic comprehension. You can parade every single argument you have inside your head to justify not believing but truly its OK we get the idea. I nor any of the other Mormons here ever try and reconvert you. Sometimes its OK not to believe any more and its OK to have the good grace to move along without trotting out all your excuses to a group who largely are oblivious to the finer points of your disagreements; and those of us who do know what you are talking about can see holes in your logic (want a simple one - the fulness of the Gospel - as taught to Mormons who stay awake during the meetings - is not about the three degrees of Glory or the Word of Wisdom etc.. - it is about the preparatory Gospel administered by the Aaronic priesthood v. the fullness of the gospel as administered by the Melchizedek Priesthood - but don't let that stop you lifting more strawman source arguments from lightplanet!!) I don't think the worse of you for leaving the LDS - I just wish you didn't base your new certainties on such preschool arguments.
  
  SusanHere has done nothing at all but post some fairly basic but robust defences and that on a fairly infrequent basis. I don't think many active Mormons on this board are rude enough to push the LDS religion on a normal basis as the subject of a post. Normally we respond to the sensationalist claptrap that we see posted or respond respectfully to questions posed by the less hormonally overloaded. Having someone just start throwing around words like b******t - ( without even the slight mitigation that humour would bring to it) tells me that you aren't posting to discuss you are posting to rant. I'm quite capable of ranting myself and I recognise it in others.
  
  Seven 'Oblivious Utopia' - cute phrase just think about what you said - where are you - 'Cynical Hell'? Bully boy rhetoric may serve you well but to me it just says doofus. Quit picking on Susan.
  
  Shawn "I have stated here before that I am absolutely ASTOUNDED that a person can be a participant on this board and a practicing/believing Mormon." - well bully for you - get over it and move on - you betray 1/ stupidity in paragraph one and progress to outright bigotry by paragraph three. I hope you are neither stupid or a bigot and await with anticipation your comments to back up my hopes.
• 

  seven006

  Q,
  
  That is one of the best responses I have seen you post to a fellow poster or posters on this board (and I have been reading most all of your posts since you first started posting here). It had some passion, back handed complements/stabs, a noble attempt to rescue an assumed damsel in distress, correct spelling and all that heroic knight on a white horse kind’a stuff that makes for an exciting post. Not bad coming from one of this board’s most consummate and consistent fence sitters. That is not a “slam” as you say, only an astute observation or your very own writing style.
  
  Make up your mind Q. Quit being so afraid and hiding your doubts about Joe’s made up fantasy religion by posting on an exJW board. Grow some courage and take your questions and doubts to an exMormon discussion board where they are more familiar with the fantasies of Joe Smith (the L. Ron Hubbard of the 1800’s.)
  
  Or even better take your questions to the archaeologist who did the actual archeological excavation of the Hill Cumorah (sorry if I spelt that wrong, I have a problem remembering how to spell made up stuff) in Up State New York and found absolutely nothing to substantiate the claims of a massive war written about in the incredible book of fantasy and fiction known as the book of Mormon. But I guess you can’t do that since the Mormon church bought up all the land around hill Cumorah and close it down to any more archeological excavation. How convenient.
  
  It’s amazing what you can afford when you garnish 10% of your 12 million or so follower’s income and call it a tax exempt tithe instead of protection money like the Mob calls it. As with all cult like minority religions and Mafia families, it’s all about the power and the money. Mormon leaders buy entire hills and the JW leaders buy whole city blocks in Brooklyn. It seems that god gets his real-estate priorities mixed up at times. But he seems to like New York state a lot. Go Nicks!
  
  Q, you seem to be somewhat intelligent and undoubtedly a nice guy and loving father. Use those traits and make a decisive decision in your life. Hiding here on JWD defending and then ridiculing both sides of the Mormon issue gets you and everyone else absolutely no where. It is a perfect example of self gratifying mental masturbation.
  
  Use what intelligence you do have, break out of your state of confusion and make a decision in your life, then try sticking with it.
  
  You always have come off on this board as a really nice guy. Most Mormons I have met are also really nice guys. Same with most of the JW’s, Christian Scientist, Seventh Day Adventists and Scientologists that I have met. They all appear to be really “nice people” and for the most part they are.
  
  It’s a part of the programming and also a part of the show. Not all of it is, but it is the part that the leaders (governing body) of the cult like minority religions use as their lure in their dog and pony shows. That little show tries to make them come off as the “one and only true religion” with wholesome family values because their people dress nicely, have great big pearly white tooth smiles and wear pretty new dresses and easy-on easy-off snap on ties. The more white teeth smiles and snap on ties they can show in their cult brochures and TV Christmas specials, the more chance they have in catching hungry and clueless converts with those superficial and metaphysical fish hooks. All Minority religions and cult like religions do that. It’s a big part of their marketing plan.
  
  I can even remember when Barbara Bush had a group of kids from the “children of God” cult lined up with her for a photo op on the front lawn of the White House. Little did she know it was not only common practice but an important part of the cult’s allure, teaching and perverted dogma to sexually molest those little children with those big white smiles and clip on ties. Type “Children of God” into a search engine and see it for yourself. And we thought the JW’s and Mormons had child molestation problems.
  
  If your back handed compliment about “enlightened ones” is in reference to me. Then say so. I have never hidden my reasons or purpose for being on this board. It is plain for anyone to see and read. I do not make anything up as I go. I am neither Joseph Smith Brigham Young, Chucky Russell, Freddy Franz, Billy Miller or any other minority religion’s founder or corporate president. That is their M.O. Not mine.
  
  Since you brought it up, and I do not want to try and mislead or misinterpret anyone, maybe I should ask you and the other Mormon or ex-Mormon posters on this board what their true motive or purpose is for posting here. And why don’t they/you post on an ex-Mormon board instead of an exJW board? It seems to be more relevant to your situations.
  
  So it’s out there, all Mormons or ex-Mormons on this board can now take this chance and enlighten us with the true reason they post here (it might even make a great new thread topic). It would probably help clear things up and keep “enlightened” people using tough guy words like myself from assuming anything by trying to read between the lines. If I am wrong in my conclusions I have shown many times on this board that I have no problem admitting I was wrong or apologizing for it.
  
  Take care,
  
  Dave
• 

  Qcmbr

  Seven - I am not above returning a compliment - I like your last comments because they show much more considered thought for me as a person - not simply another Mormon (it may also have something to do with calling me a 'nice guy'. I can be that shallow :D)
  
  Why am I here? Different reasons - reasons that have evolved over time:
  
  1/ I enjoy it - I've invested time and my thoughts here - I feel a kinship that I know I don't deserve (or have!) but I still feel it.
  2/ I can explore thoughts here that don't excite too many biases - on an exmormon site either everyone will agree or will argue the toss. Here most people aren't consumed by the minutea of LDS life and don't have the same emotional triggers. If I express an alternate viewpoint to accepted LDS thought nobody here feels a need to argue from an LDS viewpoint. That's much more liberating. I think outside the LDS box by not posting with those still mentally within it (as an example of how fruitless it is see the rumbles FM and I have on a regular basis.)
  3/ Ex-Mormons are obsessed with the LDS, insanely obsessed. They feel a need to clean the mental closet by finding anything that is derogatory or negative about the LDS - it rarely matters if its logical or even true. I understand that process ( a bit like burning photos of a former lover and finding all the things to hate about them) - since I'm not going through that I find it a bit puke inducing sitting through ex-LDS doing it. Ex-JWs do it but since I have no emotional ties to JWs - it doesn't bother me. Watching someone break up is potentially interesting - unless they are breaking up with someone in your family.
  4/ I find the JW religion fascinating.
  
  Right - would post more but the batteries at 8% and my wife is giving me that look (no not the sexy one - the other one.)
  
  P.S.
  I'm actually lovely.