in defense of the Holy Trinity (page 2)

stillajwexelder

THE TRINITY IS THE MOST STUPID DOCTRINE I HAVE EVER COME ACROSS - IT MAKES ZERO SENSE

Sad emo

If you still want to tackle the Trinity, you may find this page useful. It discusses both key scriptures and quotes from the early church fathers:

http://www.reachouttrust.org/articles/doctrine/trinity.htm

It's important that you make a clear differentiation between Jehovah and 'the Father' - because for a JW Jehovah = father, they will sometimes think that a trinitarian believes that all the three persons are 'Jehovah' - hence Jesus and the Holy Spirit also = Jehovah (therefore making them all the same person - which is actually not trinitarian but Sabellian). 'Jehovah', for the sake of argument isn't the name of the father, but the name of 'God' (or the godhead).

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three seperate persons but all sharing the one essence of 'god-ness', basic analogy - like a sports team where all the players are individuals but they play as one, each with their different but equally important roles, all with the same goal in mind.

Inquisitor

Any attempt to lend legitimacy to the Trinity doctrine without acknowledging its historical development is plainly unintelligent and dishonest. If reason must prevail to rescue anyone from JWism then that same power of reason must be applied to any other mass-swaying dogmas. Those of you who advertise your interpretation of the scriptures ought to already know that there are other ways of disproving your concept of Jesus (yes it is not JUST the holy spirit's role that is assailable). As a rule, I've always been careful of people who go sola scriptura and with a dismissive laugh (not unlike George Bush's) tell you that it is the simplest thing to comprehend. I mean haven't you learnt ANYTHING from your experience in the Org??? INQ "When Jesus Became God - The Struggle to Define Christianity during the Last Days of Rome" Richard E. Rubenstein ISBN 0-15-100368-8 ISBN 0-15-601315-0 (paperback)

The Last Nephilim

I agree with stillanexjwelder. The trinity doctrine requires more twisting and "reading into" certain scriptures to become believable. The only words that Jesus spoke that comes even remotely close to describing the trinity were, "I and the Father are one", which, after reading the context, clearly shows that he was NOT speaking about literal "oneness", but rather unity. Then you've got John 1:1 which everyone argues over the correct translation, so that's a stalemate. Every other "proof" text for the trinity is vague and a stretch to interpret that way, which is why many trinitarians will follow with, "God is mysterious and works in mysterious ways", or, "You're not reading it with the holy ghost's help" or some other nonsense. I hate to say it, but the bORG is more correct on the nature of God and Jesus than trinitarians are, which leads us to the "Who is Michael the Archangel?" question... My answer to that is- Who is buried in Grant's tomb? ;)

Inquisitor

I hate to say it, but the bORG is more correct on the nature of God and Jesus than trinitarians are, which leads us to the "Who is Michael the Archangel?" question... My answer to that is- Who is buried in Grant's tomb? ;) Said boldly, Last Nephilim. Kudos INQ

lrkr

A little advice- Don't take on the Trinity- he is being taught that the WT's interpretation is the most logical and therefore all other religions are false. There is easier, lower hanging fruit.

You are right to be concerned about him entering this group- and for reasons that are much more significant than the Trinity. Look around here, you'll see what I mean. Check into teachings on blood, holidays, social separation from non-believing family and friends, anti-citizenry positions, anti-college and education teachings, previous unfulfilled prophecies, and there are many others.

jwfacts

I can see how it may be better to focus on other doubts than the Trinity.

You have hit the nail on the head, you will get nowhere discussing doctrine. Doctrine simply becomes a tennis match, volleying favourite scriptures at each other, but rarely with a clear winner. http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/5min.htm is a good place to start with what you can discuss with him.

There has been a 2000 year debate over the Trinity because the Bible does not clearly define the relationship of Jesus. http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/worshipjesus.htm shows the struggle the Watchtower had with it, and how they claimed for many decades that Jesus should be worshipped. I personally believe that although the Trinity is a difficult doctrine, it developed out of necessity. The scriptural discussion of Jesus being God made it necessary for a monotheistic religion to claim Jesus and the Father must both be the same God.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

Is your husband sure that he wants to belong to a church that paid approx. $12.5 million in hush money to child sexual abuse victims?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21917798

http://www.silentlambs.com/newsletter/NewsLetterItem.cfm?SendoutID=564

JWs may expose the trinity, but they hide pedophiles.

Or, can your husband explain the last 5 or so definitions of 'generation' at Matt. 24:34 including the new one for this year?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses#History_of_eschatology

jwfacts

I have been working on an article about the Trinity that may be of help. It is still a work in process, but shows at least the dishonest way the Watchtower tries to back up its teaching. It is an 18 page pdf at the following link.

http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/trinity.pdf

potentialJWconvertswife

Thanks again to all. I've dropped the Trinity argument for now and will focus on other issues. Irkr- believe me, I know about all the other stuff, and it's definitely disturbing. Billy- my husband has no idea about any of the pedophile stuff. He only started studying with these folks a few months ago, probably doesn't know anything about the generations definitions. Thanks for all the info Facts, I'll be studying it all.

in defense of the Holy Trinity

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