"This change shows how close the end we REALLY are..............." (page 3)

proplog2

Minimus: The smart ones WILL pay attention. They will look at those 1st and 2nd century writings as old bound volumes.

In the future Witnesses will just hold up a book and say: "YES OR NO?.....QUICK THERE'S NO TIME LEFT!!!!!" That will show that the Great Tribulation is just around the corner....when Jehovah speeds up the work and we go jogging from door to door.

AWAKE&WATCHING

My estranged husband came to see me at work a few months ago. He wanted to let me know about the meeting changes. The shortened Sunday talks and the kool-aid edition of the Watchtower are signs that this system's end is soooo close he told me. I told him that he needed to show me in the Bible where it says that changes in the meetings are a sign of the end. I quit wearing my wedding ring that day. I could never deal with that on a daily basis again even if there was nothing else wrong in our marriage. I don't have the stomach for it.

Awakened07

proplog2; all your sources have one thing in common.

-What is it you really want to say, though, I'd like to know? I think I've understood that you're something as rare as a non-theistic, secular JW apologist? If so, is your point that it's better to have a false hope than no hope at all? Strange as it may seem, I may agree to a point. It's what the people who tell you about that hope tell you to do with your life that can make it dangerous. If I'm told I'll eventually inherit a million dollars, that's a nice hope to have (especially if true), but if I'm told I have to give up on having children, or give up certain medical treatments in order to be granted that inheritance? The hope of the million dollars in itself could lead to unsound decisions too though, for instance I might think "Well - soon I'll be a millionaire, so if I spend all the money I currently have now, it won't matter in the end". If the 'hope' turns out to be real, then perhaps it all pans out, but a lot of people have lived entire lives already based on false hopes and made bad decisions because of it.

Or are you certain aliens will come rescue us all, and that these prophecies really are from them, and therefore have truth to them even if not supernaturally (not trying to be smart, but I honestly seem to remember this being part of what you believe)?

Tell it like it is, and don't hold back, I guess is what I'm trying to say here.

Homerovah the Almighty

That statement has been used for decades and the ones that have been involved with the JWS for a long period of time know that !

The policy of fear that is being sold out has two objectives

1. It helps the sales of the literature, obviously

2. It helps to maintain the power and control over the flock

These are the two most important elements on building a religion like this.

flipper

WARLOCK- My dad 82, who is an elder always says something like that when my wife and I visit him and my mom. You could just say something simple from a news snippet and I get, " Well you know it shows how close to the end we REALLY are " ! Drives me nuts ! It could just be news of a dog running across the street and I'll get, " Shows you how close to the end we are " ! These people are like damned parrots ! Repeat! Repeat! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

proplog2

Awakened:

It is a continuous "bitch" session of "Ain't it Awful". The 1960's psychologist, Eric Berne, wrote a book called The Games People Play. One of those games or pastimes is called "Ain't it Awful" where a bunch of people take turns complaining or ridiculing some person or organization. Each acknowledges "Yes, it IS awful..." and then adds their own awful experience. This is NOT a very intellectual process. Especially, when you consider that if something is really, REALLY awful or terrible you probably have done something about it. While there is little short term harm in doing this there also is no long term good either.

Consider the orientation of those who might be involved in this.

If you are an atheist it really doesn't matter. "Shit happens". Everything is about as permanent as a snow ball in hell. ALL religion is based on illusion.

If you are a believer in Christ then you should feel quite comfortable with people who believe in martyrdom and self-sacrifice on behalf of others. As a believer you might want to show from the Bible that JW's are doing something wrong. But, at the same time believers ought to be able to defend THEIR positions. That would be more productive.

This particular thread assumes that it is stupid to live your life with Armageddon in mind. An atheist might make that assertion but should realize that stupidity is allowed in this evolved universe. But, one Christian saying that another Christian is bad for living their life, with a view to surviving the Great Tribulation is unsupportable by the book they claim to follow.

Most of the problems discussed here are of the Ain't it Awful category.
Child Molestation? People of all walks of life have this weakness. The Bible never said Christians would be free of immoral people. So why point the finger at ANY religion.

Two Witness Rule? This is an ancient common law. Unfortunately, it is not always possible to find two witnesses to molestation. Now, medical science has become very good at corroborating a victims report with circumstantial evidence. In the meantime, because of this litigious society it is important for ANY organization to be able to defend itself from exaggerated claims of personal injury. Juries may award damages that turn organizations into victims. Are JW's supposed to go to victims and say we're sorry and here is a key to the vault - take what you want?

United Nations Involvement: The Watchtower Society was perhaps indiscreet but their motive was rational. It has become the "straw that broke the camel's back" for some people. But this is because they were already piling the straws on by the bale full.

Blood Transfusion: This is a mistake. Those that see it as such should discretely ignore it. And should a circumstance arise where you or someone dear to you come onto a collision course with this doctrine you ought to be willing to disobey and become disfellowshipped. Enough people doing that could change the doctrine quickly. There is no need to leave an organization because of a mistaken interpretation.

People treat you badly at the hall: Most people treat themselves "badly". Love does not keep account of injury.

I could go on (shunning, not fighting in wars, not voting, birthdays) but these are the subjects that come up all the time. I think it would be useful if posters would research similar threads before they post. That's why Simon has a search function. It isn't the best but it is more than adequate. Lurkers should be aware that Ain't it Awful is a waste of time. If that game resonates with a lurker they should at realize that there are better things to do.

I DO have a bizarre orientation when it comes to Alien involvement. For me it is the alternative explanation for all the crazy ways "God" is portrayed in the Bible. It allows me to avoid the all or none approach to the Bible. Some of the Bible IS true.

daniel-p

Child Molestation? People of all walks of life have this weakness. The Bible never said Christians would be free of immoral people. So why point the finger at ANY religion.

Child molestation is not a "weakness." It's a crime perpetrated on innocents from perverted minds. It's Satanic, to use terms you're more comfortable with. And if Christians arn't free of immoral people why is it so important to be identifed as one? Take your Christian-apologist shite somewhere else.

proplog2

Daniel P:

What a shame. With your judgemental attitude you would make an excellent JW. Religion is the refuge of punitive, revengeful people. Too Bad.

By calling something a "weakness" I am not precluding it from being a crime. Saying something is a "weakness" does not justify it. That goes for gambling, extramarital sex, smoking, abusing drugs and alcohol.

I think YOU ought to take YOUR primitive orientation elsewhere.

Not really. Stay around here. You fit in with this board.