Bethel layoffs in 2008 - 300+ and counting (page 9)

proplog2

mcsemike:

Your daughters experience may "explain" your anger against the organization but it doesn't "justify" it.

I don't know you and I can't even know if you are telling the truth. If you really went through that then I can understand your strong feelings. You haven't given the details for good reason - it brings back a lot of rage. But it is those (unspoken) details that determine how much blame the Watchtower should accept and sadly the degree to which you too may not have exercised enough caution.

I have raised 4 kids. I never trusted anyone alone with my kids. Not even in an adjoining room. I never allowed my older children to be alone with their younger brothers and sisters with a door closed. You are not obligated to defend your actions to anyone. We must give you the benefit of the doubt and assume some kind of scenario where it was absolutely unavoidable that your little girl was in a situation long enough for her to be molested.

But, to be fair, the "brothers" in your old congregation deserve be given the benefit of the doubt and we must assume some kind of scenario where they did all they could reasonably do to avoid this event.

The only thing that is certain is that the person who commits the crime is the one who deserves punishment. Anyone else's liability is a matter to be settled in court. And even courts don't always get it right.

What gets me is the knee jerk sympathy that is handed out on this board. And lurkers ought to be cautioned that there are liars and crazies that are free to post whatever they desire.

OUTLAW

Proplog2.."I never allowed my older children to be alone with their younger brothers and sisters with the door closed.".....Your Words,on Your Post.....What have you taught your children,that they would sexually abuse the younger children in the family?.....Why can`t you trust your own children,not to sexually abuse their younger brothers and sisters!.....What have you done,for your children to behave in this manor?.....Why can`t you trust your own children?......You have made it very clear,you approve of the WBT$ 2 Witness Child Molestation Rule.."It protects Child Molesters!".....Do you need protection Proplog2?.................. Clint Eastwood ...OUTLAW

proplog2

Outlaw:

I read the statistics. I don't keep them in my head. But there have been hundreds of articles in newspapers and magazines about child molestation - certainly enough to make any normally prudent person cautious.

I valued the mental health of my children too much to allow this to happen. But it's like fighting terrorists. You've got to be 100% vigilant. A molester only needs one opportunity.

I don't trust children. They don't have a track record with managing their impulses. I certainly wouldn't trust someone just because they belong to the same church. I trusted my parents because they raised me and never abused me. I generally don't trust men with kids because molestation seems to be a male problem.

And this is too much of an answer to someone who just insinuated that I am a child molester.

You're pathetic. (Mixed contempt and pity) You are a disappointment to me. I think an apology is in order.

Shame on all on this thread who think Outlaw is justified in his comment.

trudy

proplog2

The proper way to handle pedophiles in the Christian congregation is warn those with families to be on
guard of a known offender. I don't know how the 'elders' who are supposed to protect the flock, could
not warn members of the cong. of a possible threat. If any of it's members were to speak out, I'm
sure the elders would be sure to discipline them and caution them about slander.

Could it be that fear of a law suit is the driving force of why the congregation is not warned?

proplog2, I used to defend the Watchtower and it's leaders until I found this scripture:

Matthew 12:50

Christ said,"anyone who does the will of my Father is the same, my brother, sister and my mother."

The presiding elder told me I could never be one of Christ's brothers or sisters.....

I thought all along I was doing God's will and so I was not one of Christ's brothers or sisters?

according to Matt 12:50 I am. From then on I knew their teachings lacked discretion and Biblical
value. And that they are not Faithfully handling the word of God aright.

trudy

proplog2

I am not saying these things to hurt you but to help you see the importance of 'making sure of all
things.' Have you examined your religion? Have you told others to examine theirs?

Here is another reason why I know the WT leaders are impostors and not handling THE WORD of God
aright....

How many time have their doctrines said,'The heavenly door is shut'? I know of 3 times.

Who gave them this authority? The authority belongs only to Christ.

John 10:9
I am the door; by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved"

Matthew 23:13
Jesus said,"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye shut the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye enter not in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering in to enter."
The Scribes and Pharisees cast out anyone who came to believe in the words of Christ.

I believed the Bread and wine was opened to me, the elders planned to cast me out because I listened
to Christ. The presiding elder told me, "You are not to eat the bread and wine, and you are not one
of Christ's brothers because the heavenly door was closed in 1935." ( some doctrine huh? )

And now I hear later the WT org leaders say, 'the heavenly door is now open.' Well I've got news for
them! The heavenly DOOR was NEVER SHUT to begin with. Just think how many years the members of this
organization have believed THE LIE! and died never obeying Christ's command.

God is going to hold the leaders of this religious organization accountable and those who listen to
it. Anyone who chooses not to listen to Christ but listens another, is committing spiritual adultery
and needs to repent.

Psalm 50:18
"When thou saw a thief, thou consented with him, And have been partaker with adulterers."

John 10:10
"The thief comes not, but that he may steal, and kill, and destroy: I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly."

Mr. Majestic

Proplog,

You moan that Outlaw just insinuated that you are a child molester, and say that people that agree with him should feel shame. Maybe so....!

But you have just implied that mcsemike was a negligent father and is r esponsible for his daughters abuse. I think that you also need to apologize and feel shame. Hypocrisy like this is why I left the JW’s.

Think that it has all gone a bit off topic……?

quietlyleaving

the last few posts remind me of the conversation I had with my MS son and daughter-in-law on Monday this week, my grand daughter is 2. My husband an elder was present.

I started a conversation about pedophiles and asked my son how he would know if a pedophile was present in the congo. This congo had 5 elders last year - they now only have 1. 2 of the elders who'd 'stepped down' are still very active spiritually, they give talks etc. So you can see how my question naturally progressed from my train of thought.

My son replied that pedophiles are reproved and that if there is one in the congo everyone would be warned. I was shocked but very calmly explained that the opposite is true. Of course he did not believe me and my hubby understandably refused to back me up and in fact contradicted everything I said although privately agreeing with me. But I think I did manage to encourage my son to be careful.

This also reminds me of the recent guidelines to congregations regarding how they should record cases of alleged child abuse. There is a marked difference in the guidance given for how other alleged misconduct is recorded and how alleged child abuse ~~is recorded~~.

shame on them

ql

blondie

It they "warned" the congregation, how could they do that. If the person had been reproved, privately or publicly, they can't mention what it was for. The only people that could know is the elder body, especially the ones on the judicial committee. And what about the people outside the congregation, non jws and jws in other neighboring congregations?

People fool themselves.

besty

This was a big issue for me, having 2 young sons.

Why should an elders children enjoy a different level of protection to mine, just because I am Rank and File?

The answer I was given by a friendly elder was that I would get a tap on the shoulder and told to watch out for Bro So and So. A whispering campaign to avoid slander allegations is a wholly unsatisfactory method of protecting the congregation IMHO.

OnTheWayOut

A whispering campaign to avoid slander allegations is a wholly unsatisfactory method of protecting the congregation IMHO.

Who can you trust to keep it at a whisper? If you aren't sure whether to trust Brother Kissass, do you
skip telling him and his family of 4? What about new ones that move into a congregation? What if the
person being whispered about moves? Can you put secret information in an introduction letter?

Bethel layoffs in 2008 - 300+ and counting

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