Crisis of Conscience: POLL

by Grout 51 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Grout

  The tone of CoC, and the excruciating care with which RF explains his sources and the nature of his information ... in particular, noting what information was hearsay and how he got it ... has the ring of truth. More specifically, it's the style of someone being very careful not to overstate or misstate anything.

  RF knows the propaganda value that catching him in a genuine falsehood would have. He seems to have been excruciatingly careful in his writing. And it seems to have paid off. Whatever else RF is criticized for by the WTS, I've never seen him called on a factual error.
• 

  Julie

  Nytelecom1,

  Someone asked you what was untrue about CoC because you claim to be surprised everyone thinks it's 100% true. You replied:

  i took it one step further and read
  "why christianity must change or die"
  not impressed by that one either..

  No one asked you what you were or weren't impressed with. You were asked a specific question to back up your insinuation that CoC has falsehoods in it.

  Is it a reading comprehension problem or do you really have nothing to back up your lame remarks/insinuation with?

  Just curious,
  Julie
• 

  Skimmer

  One of the things about _Crisis of Conscience_ that impressed me was what was NOT included, and by this I mean "dirty laundry" about persons in or near the governing body. For example, Franz could have written a chapter about the exploits of GB members Greenlees and Chitty, but kept out the material as it really wasn't pertinent to the doctrinal issues, historical re-writes, and various organizational topics.

  It is possible that Franz may have kept some of this information out of the book to protect persons that were innocently involved. Also, he may have kept out the more embarrassing information about personnel and legal issues as a reserve to deter harassment by the WTBTS for what he did publish.
• 

  teejay

  Malawi/Mexico was pretty deep.

  The two thirds voting thing was totally unexpected (don't know what I expected).

  But the thing that troubled me the most is their changing the rules in order to target one man (Ray), and then df him based on the amended rules, after the fact. 'Worldly', supposedly Satanically controlled governments don't usually do that, and those that do are not generally held in high esteem.

  I figured I'd come to 'know' Jehovah pretty well over the years, and I knew that His relationship with the WTS, if it ever existed at all, was irreparably damaged when bullshit like that went down.

  Reminded me of when Jezebel killed that dude because she wanted his vineyard. Totally corrupt regardless of the "we are god's mouthpiece" they spouted. Truly righteous people don't break the rules that way.

  tj
• 

  Satanus

  What busrt my bubble about the wt being god directed, was how fred franz and his cronies basically controlled the agendas at gb meetings. The wt was ff directed.

  What really made me angry was how hard they were to ones who devoted their whole lives to the wt, then shut them out totally, even in their feeble old age, leaving them to starve or rot on the ground, because of some minor doctrinal disagreement.

  But i really have no respect for ray because of his begging to be allowed to stay in the org, and because he admitted preaching stuff he didn't believe at assemblies. I say he is a cowardly toad, dispite his intelligence.
• 

  one

  What surprised me was WHO wrote the book. (I know him since long before i was a teenager). Also the treatment to Carl when he came to usa to get find out.

  msil
  "If the macro issues are flawed why even bother with any details."
  Why are you on this forum?

  bboyneko
  "she went to the library and destroyed it."
  Unbelivable, how did you find out?

  FORMERONE
  ""new light" was arrived at"
  finallly i found the light, so you are the ONE. Not that i want to re-ignate the fire. Some in this forum know very well what i mean.

  garybuss
  you are still part of it too
• 

  msil

  One,

  I wrote:
  "If the macro issues are flawed why even bother with any details."

  You Wrote:
  "Why are you on this forum?"

  What you can't see the forest for the trees? How many agnostics you think are here who used to be dub-heads? What is your point? I have to read "crisis of conscience" to be here? Dream on....baby.
• 

  one

  Ray was not dealing with "details" only.

  You are dealilng with details on this forum. It is that your comment and your participation on this forum, well do not seem to agree.

  Mayybe i did not understand your comment.
• 

  msil

  One - thanks for responding,

  Specifically, I have issues with the nature of God, the fall of man and free will, the concept of a ransom sacrifice. These are what I call macro issues, as I do not have to do much research into things such as dates etc. I had these issues before even hearing about this board, Ray Franz or any other doctinal issues.

  While Ray's book has been of help to others, who accept the macro explanations, for me personally I decided I was OUT without reading anything. Please don't think I am critical of Ray, his work or anything like that...how can I be critical of something I havent read? Sure, I know of some of the issues he raises from reading threads here etc, but all that does is dig a deeper hole for the JW's. I have rejected dub-dom already. Once I had done that I cannot reject them any further....gone means gone!!

  I am more interested in the pursuit of happiness and the pursuit of freedom. While I am still able to be relatively happy and feel free being on the board I will. When I feel happiness and freedom must take me somewhere else I will go there.

  Hope this helps...
• 

  DazedAndConfused

  What I personally found shocking from that book was that yu could be "hunted down like a dog" just for having and opinion or at the very least wanting to get answers and getting punished for it.