Wife filling out her "No Blood" card wants my thoughts TODAY.

by OnTheWayOut 38 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  OnTheWayOut

  While I am going to do my research (again), I would love to hear your thoughts-
  especially those of you who have said something to a loved one about the
  card, whether it was a good or bad thing to say.

  My wife will fill out her "No Blood" card today and take it to the meeting for the
  proper witnesses. She wants to know my opinion on having one and my opinion
  on her card. (She is fully aware that I don't want to go to meetings and fairly
  well aware that I think WTS is a mind-control cult.)

  First of all, she IS going to fill it out and carry it, so advice to tear it up won't do.
  Second of all, she is used to me signing her card- as her husband and an elder
  who will honor her wishes. She might want to know if I will honor her wishes and
  if I should be listed as an emergency contact at all.

  I would like to be listed as the emergency contact but to do so, I would have to
  lie and say that I would honor her decision to have "no blood."
  I have wrestled with that decision. Right now, I honestly want to say to you all that
  I would rather pretend to be prepared to honor her decision, then wait until it is
  clear that blood NEEDS to be given, then violate that decision. That way, I can
  say I caved in to the pressure. I would normally feel that a person should be able
  to decide such matters, but really- WTS and pressure and guilt from the cult are
  making her decision. Certainly, she is not making her own informed decision.

  So I need your success or sorrow stories. I need your thoughts. TODAY.
• 

  momzcrazy

  My husband faced that decision with me. He had been out for a few years when I was put in the hospital dying of a ruptured ectopic pregnancy. He was in Canada at the time and I had been holding firm to my no blood decision. I was told I would not survive surgery without blood. The elders were there, our families were there. His sister, an unbelieving RN, begged me saying we could keep everyone out until I received the blood. No one need know. I still held firm. My husband made it home the next morning after I was already in CCU in a medical induced coma. He respected my wishes. But he told me a couple of months ago that if he had been given an ultimatum, he would have given me blood. He said there was no way he was going to look at our kids and tell them he could have saved me yet didn't. I can respect that.

  momz
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  He said there was no way he was going to look at our kids and tell them he could have saved me yet didn't.

  Excellent help. That's part of what I want to hear.
  Also need thoughts on "the conversation with the wife now" and not just the conversation with
  frantic family, doctors, and elders.

  Momz, thanks for that. That reinforces my thought on saying, "Put me down as your emergency
  contact. I will honor your wishes." I will be able to take her being mad at me for changing my
  mind, as long as she is alive. Deep down, her entire family will be grateful to me for that. (Mom
  is an unbaptized believer, Dad is on the fence, her sister is DF'ed)
• 

  Mary

  I would like to be listed as the emergency contact but to do so, I would have to lie and say that I would honor her decision to have "no blood." I have wrestled with that decision. Right now, I honestly want to say to you all that I would rather pretend to be prepared to honor her decision, then wait until it is clear that blood NEEDS to be given, then violate that decision. That way, I can say I caved in to the pressure.

  That's what I would do too. When my dad almost died last September due to internal bleeding, he (thankfully) had not filled out his blood card and I couldn't think off hand of what was acceptable and what wasn't, so he did get the plasma that saved his life. When I was talking to my Dub sister about it a few weeks later, she said "...If this was a test from Jehovah, I guess we failed miserably". I was able to show her the Society's faulty reasoning on the blood issue and she seemed to understand that.

  My father was initially upset to find out that he had been given plasma (simply because Big Brother forbids it), but I think that deep down he's glad that he got it or he wouldn't be alive today. My understanding is that the Society will only DF you if you're "not sorry" that you accepted the transfusion, so if it were me in that situation and they did find out blood had been used, I'd just lie my ass off to them and say what OTWO said above: you caved into the pressure.

  After all the lies they've told us over the last 100 years, I have no qualms whatsoever about lying back to them.
• 

  momzcrazy

  At the time I would have been angry yet secretly relieved. My husband traveled for work so he was not my first emergancy contact. He was my second after my sister who lived close to us. He was at my bedside non stop and fought with doctors to get me the EPO shot. They didn't think it would help as it is for cancer patients. But it helped so much the doctor didn't recognize me at my follow up visit a week after discharge.

  Good luck.

  momz
• 

  blondie

  I would make sure that she is aware of all the procedures the WTS allows, such as hemoglobin-based products, cell-savers, etc. It is amazing how many jws are ignorant or "allowed" processes as well as elders and HLC members. The "pressure" reasoning is allowable I think by the WTS only once and then as a baptized jw you could be in some administrative trouble. jws are no longer df'd for taking blood but are da'd.

  We have healthcare proxies drawn up to our new beliefs and on file with our doctor, clinic, and hospital.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Those are great thoughts Blondie- for an informed person to see how to actually make
  their own decisions. Here are my thoughts on that, though.

  My wife can read all the society information until she's old and gray. The bottom line
  (right now) is that it is confusing, and she will ultimately still say "Receiving a blood
  transfusion is wrong." You have to admit that telling people they can't have a hamburger-
  but there are all these procedures that let them have ground beef, lettuce, tomatoe, pickles,
  and a bun are okay- are very confusing.
  If I ask her to educate herself, then she will want to fill out the DPA form. I have managed
  to avoid our ever doing that.

  If she expresses her wishes clearly, that might weaken my power. She will feel that she did
  her "JW duty" and filled out the forms- still sticking by "No blood transfusion." It might
  weaken my power with the doctors and lawyers also. If she fills out a DPA, she probably will
  get the elders listed on it. As long as she remains ignorant, she will just carry the little
  tiny "legal document" and possibly list me as the contact person. That little document leaves
  me as the husband to decide in an emergency (even if I wasn't the emergency contact).
  Her ignorance, while not advancing her awareness of the problems with JW's, will give me the
  power I need to save her life should that come up.

  HOW'S THIS- I tell her why I won't have a card in my pocket. She wants to know if I want blood.
  I think I can trust my wife enough to tell her the truth and she won't tell the elders. I tell her
  the truth about the Bible instruction being a temporary injunction to keep from stumbling Jewish
  converts to Christianity. "But I would honor your wishes and support your decisions."

  See, I hate that no matter what. I have to give in to her cognitive dissonance that it is "her decision"
  or I have to force her to examine the matter, then she might arrange for me to have nothing to
  do with "her decision." You all get what I mean?
• 

  blondie

  Keeping her ignorant may be good about her own choices.

  As to yourself, make sure there are new documents (HCPOA) assigning someone who will follow your wishes and keep it secret from your wife. Let your doctor, clinic, and hospital have a copy and make sure they don't tell your wife. They shouldn't anyway if someone else is your healthcare proxy. You could just tell her you have taken care of it with your healthcare persons.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Excellent advice Blondie. That's really helpful.

  What I want to say to the wife is this:
  "One of my biggest problems with WTS is the blood issue. They currently state that the scriptures that say to abstain from blood are Jehovah's command to avoid whole blood transfusions. They are not completey honest about what was said in the Bible and why it was said. They try to say that this command pre-dates the Law, then use commands in the ALREADY FULFILLED Law to show how to obey this command."

  "Now, to avoid lawsuits, they won't retract their previous statements to have NO WHOLE BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS, but they tell you how to get around Jehovah's command. Instead of whole blood, they tell you it is your decision to have fractions taken from other people's whole blood donations. They neglect to remind you that ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN UNDERSTANDING, those whole blood donations should have been poured on the ground, instead of fractionated."

  "They are hypocrites. They are contradicting themselves. I will make my wishes clear and give them to Doctor XXX. As for you, sign the card, make me your emergency contact. I will honor your wishes on the matter."

  Does this sound good? Opinions? Add more, say less?
• 

  blondie

  The fraction and pouring out is something I use often with jws to show how the WTS is not consistent. I though would not trust her to make your decision for you. jws don't do the logical thing, they blindly follow the WTS rather than reasoning things out. If you sign that card it will cancel out any paperwork giving someone else that responsibility. It is going to be hard to hide your decision from her since she seems to be very black and white in her viewpoint.