Adams wife before Eve

by LouBelle 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • LouBelle
    LouBelle

    I was watching something rather interesting on the HIstory Channel last night with regards to lost scrolls, scrolls that hadn't been included in the bible. There were three characters that stood out for me.

    Lillith - She is only mentioned once in Scripture - Isaiah 34: 14 - some versions may be different. W ildcats shall meet with hyenas, goat-demons shall call to each other; there too Lilith shall repose, and find a place to rest. There shall the owl nest and lay and hatch and brood in its shadow (NRSV) Now the reasoning (through midrash - which is a study of scripture,documents to fill in the gaps) is that this was Adams first wife - she was supposedly created at the same time as Adam, from the same dust, therefore being in equal. The scripture scholars use is in Genises the first chapter where it speaks of God creating man & woman equal - only in Genisis chapter two is Eve then mentioned as being created. Lillith didn't submit to Adam and decided that the garden of Eden wasn't for her - so she left, told god straight that she wasn't returning, she then becomes a demon of the night praying on new born and spawning with men - the "original and mother of Succubi". Then the more submissive Eve was created....

    Soloman - was spoken of as having a ring (given to him by god) with which to control / banish demons. Why they brought this up was because after Jesus had expelled demons he goes into the crowd and says "truly I say to one who is greater than soloman has arrived" - why would he mention soloman ???? again through midrash they find texts and documents mentioning Soloman using evil spirits to do good in the building of his temple.

    The next was Josephs' wife - I can't remember her name - she was the daughter of an Egyption Priets. Now as he was a hebrew there would be no way he would be allowed to take on an Egyption Pagan wife. So how was it that they came to be married.....

    It's amazing how much information is out there that wasn't included in the bible as we have it today (for whatever reason) Does anyone have / know where one could purchase a septuigent? (spelling)

  • nelly136
    nelly136

    http://www.kalvesmaki.com/LXX/texts.htm dont know if this is any help

    Where can one buy the Greek text of the Septuagint? You can either search for a used copy at Bookfinder.com (an excellent first place to look for any used book) or order a new copy from the United Bible Societies, who offer the best price I know. In addition, Septuagint.com purports to sell a reprint of The Septuagint Bible, the 1808 translation by Charles Thomson. For the latest critical text (Stuttgart), these can be purchased from the publisher. The Church of Greece also sells copies of the Greek Old Testament, but the text is neither Rahlfs' nor Stuttgart, but an ecclesiastical ms. tradition. There is now an interlinear Septuagint published on CD-Rom by The Apostolic Press, although their version does not include diacritical marks. An interview with the project head can be found here.

  • BurnTheShips
  • Nosferatu
    Nosferatu

    Last time the JWs came to our door, my wife was telling them about Lillith. They were really confused.

  • tan
    tan
    Last time the JWs came to our door, my wife was telling them about Lillith. They were really confused.

    I saw a little bit of that show too. I was so impressed. Was wondering if the JWs knew about it. Was never mentioned when I was in. Amazing on how much there is to learn when you open your eyes...or see without the rose color glasses the JWs use.

  • momzcrazy
    momzcrazy

    I believe in Lillith. I had heard she was the explanation for the apparent discrepency between Gen 1:27 "God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." and Gen chapter 2 because it presents Eve's creation. So it would seem that man and woman were created, then in chapter 2 Adam is alone and Eve is created. But in the Bible I have Gen 2 seems more like a recap of HOW man and woman were created. Are there other Bibles that are more complete? Bibles that are not the current version we have now? Mine is the New American Standard and Is. 34:14 says, "Yes the night monster will settle there And will find herself a resting place."

    momz

  • belbab
    belbab

    Let me introduce you to a modern day Lilith.

    A biography is written about her in the url below.

    Award winning Canadian author:Joy Kogawa

    She wrote a famous book called Obasan, the story of a young Japanese girl, imprisoned in Japanese camps in Canada during the second World War.

    She also co-authored a book with "Broca" I believe, about Lilith. In this book is a powerful picture (photo?) of a group of woman, powerful and inspiring. If I can find it I will post it here.

    Here is a part of her poem:

    "Lilith"
    And up from the battered seed,
    Wings loud with exultation,
    Comes Lilith, at last-
    By plane, by foot
    By taxi, by wheelchair
    With shoes, without shoes
    From back alleys and the bedrooms
    From cardboard boxes (92)

    In this quote and throughout the book, Kogawa brings out Lilith as a strong role model for all women, regardless of their own religion, race, or class background. She calls out for women to take after the example of Lilith, rather than the complacent Eve.

    Together, through the poetry and images in A Song of Lilith, Kogawa and Broca weave a striking new telling of the Christian myth of creation but do not limit their message solely to a Christian audience. She urges us to stand strong in the face of opposition and reclaim these myths, which have been slandered throughout time. As she herself says,

    My sisters, the task is therefore ours
    To make a stronger design / To knit each tale of grief
    In the name of the child
    Along the quivering edges of our wings
    And to birth the new age
    Under the banner
    Of our true and original name" (96)

    Click here to visit the author page for Joy Kogawa.

    http://voices.cla.umn.edu/vg/Critique/review_poetry/a_song_of_lilith_by_joy_kogawa.html

    Lilith, you are my goddess. May you rise from the tomb of obscurity to mold this worlds destiny once more.

    belbab, male embracing the feminine

  • feenx
    feenx

    WOW that is fascinating! I will totally have to check into that. I don't remember her being mentioned in the The Gnostic Gospels. I also have the Nag Hammadi library in English, but haven't read too far into it yet. Did the show say which documents contained her name?

  • loosie
    loosie

    you can check out your local library. they should have have some info. search for the term apocrypha.

    the book ( I forget its name) that talks about Solomon. talks about him having a ring with which he can contol the demons. it says somethign to the effect with one ring you can control them all. reminded me of lord of the rings.

    Now Lilith she rocks. She refused to lay with Adam and be on the bottom. She wanted to be on the top. Adam only wanted missonary position and refused her. So Lilith called on the name of the most high, the name that is not to be spoken and told god she was outta there.

    Morale of the story don't piss off Lilith.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    LouBelle....The medieval and modern Jewish concept of Lilith as the first mate of Adam, created from the earth like himself but later replaced by Eve and banished, derives from a very late tradition, appearing no earlier than the Alphabet of Ben Sira (9th-10th century AD), which is the earliest known text that articulates this concept, and which actually was a comedic parody of rabbinic midrash. It employs the same eisegetical methodology of midrash, which seeks to maximize information from a text (usually by reading between the lines and interpreting the language creatively, such as using names as points of departure of embellishing the narrative) and resolve discrepensies such as the one between the two creation accounts in Genesis 1 and ch. 2-3. There are countless other examples of this kind of midrash in the rabbinics. The author of the satirical Alphabet created the legend by importing the pre-existing superstition of lilith demons into the text of Genesis as an explanation of why the creation of woman was mentioned twice in the two accounts, which at the time was read as a single unified account.

    The belief in female lilith (llyt) demons however is very old. It finds expression in Job 18:15, Isaiah 34:14; 11QpsAp, 4Q510 11:4-6a, Nidda 24b, Shab. 151b, etc. but it is nowhere connected with an Adam and Eve story. That connection was only made later in midrash. Job 18:15 (amended) suggests that lilith was a chthonic demon associated with Mot, Isaiah 34:14 designates the lilith as a demon of the wilderness, and 4Q510 11:4-6 mentions "all the spirits of the destroying angels, spirits of the bastards, demons, the lilith, howlers, and desert dwellers". The Jewish Nippur Bowls (c. AD 500) attest the fear of the "wicked lilith" as a vampire who afflicts pregnant women. Nidda 24b relates that "lilith is a demoness who has a human face and has wings". These notions preserve the Akkadian (Babylonian) designation of the male lilu and the female lilitu as demons classed with the ardat lili "restless ghost" and the rabisu "lurking demon" (cf. Genesis 4:7). There were other female demons as well, such as the lamashtu -- scholars have suggested that the lilith of Jewish thought draws both on aspects of the lilitu and lamashtu. Notice that originally the liliths had male counterparts. One Assyrian text designates the male lilu as "the phantom of the night that in the desert roams abroad, unto the side of the wanderer has drawn night, casting a woeful fever upon his body" (Thompson, 97). Gilgamesh's father, according to the Sumerian King List, was a lilu. It must be recognized that the Hebrew llyt derives from the Akkadian lilitu, just as similarly chrwbym "cherubim" derives from the Akkadian karibu, and the Hebrew rbts "lurking demon" derives from the Akkadian rabisu. The direction of dependence in the case of llyt is clear, for both Hebrew and Akkadian versions are derived from the Sumerian LIL "wind, spirit" (e.g. the god Enlil is "lord of spirits"). Jewish tradition has therefore adapted an older Akkadian mythology; note, for instance, that the lilitu was borrowed, but not the masculine lilu and the Jewish lilith traditions do not pair her with a being called Lilu or Lil. And none of the earlier sources portray the lilith as a wife of Adam or place the lilitu in an Edenic setting.

    It is also important to recognize that there wasn't a single tradition about Lilith and Adam but several different traditions that do not mesh well.R. Moses de Leon combined these together in the Zohar (13th century AD) without making much attempt to reconcile them. I thus see little reason to privilege the Alphabet tradition as the "real Lilith tradition" over the other traditions wherein the backstory of Adam and/or Lilith is altogether different. We may thus note how R. Isaac b. Jacob Ha-Qohen designated Lilith as the mate of the arch-demon Samael who were both created in the same hour "in the image of Adam and Eve" (Trestise, 19, 22). The Genesis Rabbah 18.4, 22.7, on the other hand, claimed that Adam had a first wife called "the first Eve" who was later replaced, but nowhere is she called "Lilith" and there is no reason to think that she should be identified with Lilith. The tradition diverges from the Alphabet tradition in many ways: The "first Eve" was removed from Adam not because a dispute over sexual dominance but because Adam was disgusted by watching the process of her creation and seeing her "discharge and blood". Furthermore, by the time the second Eve gave birth to Cain, the first Eve did not live on as a demoness but rather "had returned to dust" (22.7). An even older tradition from the Talmud, I believe, is truer to the mythological background of the Lilith and Eve myths:

    "Rabbi Jeremiah ben Eleazar said, "During those years after their expulsion from the Garden, during which Adam, the first man, was separated from Eve, he became father to ghouls and demons and Lilin." Rabbi Meir said, "Adam, the first man, being very pious and finding that he had caused death to come into the world, sat fasting for 130 years, and separated himself from his wife for 130 years, and wore fig vines for 130 years. His fathering of evil spirits, referred to here, came as a result ofspontaneous emission of semen." (Erubin 18b).

    Here the scene is not prior to the creation of Eve but after Adam's expulsion from the Garden, during which time he lived in isolation from Eve. The claim is that Adam spontaneously procreated the lilin, which were lilith-type spirits with human shape but with wings (Rashi, Sanhedrin 109a). Likewise Eve bore demons to the male spirits during the 130 year period. Thus all the demons were half-human (Hag. 16a), and one very late kabbalistic text refers to Lilith as the mother who collected Adam's semen and bore the lilin after her husband Samael had been castrated (Bacharach, 'Emeq ha-Melekh 19c, 84b-d). The description of demonic monsters being created through "spontaneous emission" is strikingly reminiscent of Hesiod's account of the Titans and Ouranos fathering all sorts of monstrous beings after his castration by bleeding onto Gaia. And the whole notion of "two Eves" or two wives of Adam derives from an attempt to reconcile the two creation accounts in Genesis, and the concept that the manner of Eve's creation was somehow different from someone else's can be found in the eccentric interpretation of z't h-p'm "This is now" in Genesis 2:23 as "This time". Thus the Alphabet and rabbinic traditions do not represent any early or original traditions which lay in the background of the Genesis accounts themselves.

    An even later development in this folklore is the conflation of Lilith with Satan, making her a half-serpent female demon who was tempress of Eve. This "tradition", if it could be called as such, did not appear until 1648, when something vaguely like it was first articulated in Bacharach's 'Emeq ha-Melekh. The relevant passage is thus:

    And the Serpent, the Woman of Harlotry, incited and seduced Eve through the husks of Light which in itself is holiness. And the Serpent seduced Holy Eve, and enough said for him who understands. An all this ruination came about because Adam the first man coupled with Eve while she was in her menstrual impurity -- this is the filth and the impure seed of the Serpent who mounted Evebefore Adam mounted her. Behold, here it is before you: because of the sins of Adam the first man all the things mentioned came into being. For Evil Lilith, when she saw the greatness of his corruption, became strong in her husks, and came to Adam against his will, and became hot from him and bore him many demons and spirits and lilin.

    It was only through later Christian iconography and art that Lilith was firmly identified as being half-snake and the tempress of Eve (cf. Abel Pann's 1926 painting and Jappie King Black's 1980 painting, both which identify the figure as "Lilith"). The artistic representation of the Eden serpent in female form is a Christian art motif that originated outside of the kabbalistic tradition (cf. this painting from 1415), with no attempt being made in such works to identify the serpent explicitly with Lilith, and at any rate there is no Jewish story which corresponds to the pictorial representations. The one exception is the aforementioned Bacharach folktale, but it is confusing and quite problematic. The story is not of Eve's temptation at the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, but a sexual seduction by the Lilith-Serpent so that the Lilith-Serpent lay with Eve who was a virgin at the time and the semen that Lilith produced inside Eve was the origin of menstruation! This notion is totally alien to the rest of the Lilith tradition, both in representing Lilith as the serpent in Eden as well as portraying her as a semen-producing female serpent who had sex with Eve before Adam had the chance. Bacharach, in turn, was influenced by Moses Cordovero (1522-1570) and R. Isaac b. Jacob Ha-Kohen (thirteenth century AD) who did not identify Lilith with the serpent in Eden, but did describe her as "the Torturous Serpent" who mated with Samael (i.e. Satan) who was the "Slant Serpent". This, in turn, is derived from the much older concept of Lilith as the consort of the wicked demon Samael. Within this version of the Lilith tradition, Lilith was not Satan/Samael but rather his mate! And the notion of Lilith being serpentine derives not from a midrash of the Eden story (which nowhere enters Cordovero's and Ha-Kohen's depiction of Lilith) but from a midrash of Isaiah 27:1 which mentions "Leviathan the Slant Serpent, Leviathan the Tortorous Serpent, and the Dragon that is in the sea". Both Cordovero and Bacharach interpreted this as referring to THREE seperate individuals, Samael, Lilith, and a bizarre Blind Dragon who served as Samael's penis when he would mate with Lilith. All preceding material however does not characterize Lilith in serpentine terms and regarded her as distinct from the serpent in the Garden of Eden (= Samael or Satan). Thus b. Nidda 24b (before the sixth century AD) describes Lilith as "a demoness with a human appearance except that she has wings". This is just the description we get in the Arslan Tash amulet (7th century BC), and the mention of her "flying away" in the Alphabet of ben Sira (9th-10th century AD), so the concept of her being winged is certanly more ancient. In the later Ha-Kohen, Cordovero, and Bacharach material, where she does appear as the "Torturous Serpent", she is not Satan but the mate of Samael. In all the older medieval material, she is either the mate of Adam (cf. Alphabet) or the mate of Samael (cf. Zohar Sitrei Torah). Zohar 1:19b explicitly says that Lilith was banished from Eden after the creation of Eve (and thus could not have been the snake in the Garden), and the Alphabet even more pointedly claims that she had to be pursued by angels and steadfastly refused to return to the Garden. Moses b. Solomon of Burgos and R. Ya'aqov and R. Yitzhaq both describe as Samael and Lilith as born together androgynously, and R. Isaac b. Jacob Ha-Kohen similarly claimed that Samael and Lilith "were born at the same hour in the image of Adam and Eve, intertwined in each other" (Trestise 19-22). Yet, in the stream of tradition that knows nothing about Lilith as the consort of Samael, we find that Adam and Lilith were created together, "from the same earth" according to the Alphabet, or with "the female attached to his side" who God "sawed her off" from him (Zohar 1:34b, 3:19). In all this we see a complex, multivaried tradition with many different concepts of Lilith and how she related to Adam and Samael/Satan.

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