An open letter to Snowbird (and friends)

by inkling 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

inkling

(Note: I originally intended this to be a PM, but then I decided
I would also like to hear from other Bible defenders on the
board. Snowbird, please feel free to reply either on the board
or via PM)
---
Snowbird,
Over the course of our conversations on faith and the Old Testament
I have grown to respect you dispite our conflicting world views, and
I would like to have the have the opportunity to hear your thoughts
on something in a less combative arena than the open board...
It's seems when a believer gets into an argument with a nonbeliever
it is very often on the subject of creation/evolution, but I have no
interest at the moment of bringing that issue up, mostly because my
goal in conversation with you is not to win or lose an argument, but
to try and understand where you are coming from.
It is no mystery to me why many are convinced by a basic "Argument
From Design". The universe just "feels" designed to it's very core.
It its almost like (for whatever reason) we are hardwired to observe
our environment and implicate design. Evolution is (by admission of
it's strongest advocates) a startlingly counterintuitive idea.
The reasons I find such a idea plausible and indeed compelling fall
outside the realm of the intent of this letter...
My point is that I profoundly understand what it feels like to look
at the universe and see God.
What I DON'T understand at the moment is when someone looks at
The Bible and sees God.
You see once I imagine myself buying into the ground floor idea of
Bible Inerrancy, all the rest of your world view falls into place
and starts making sense...
It just that first set of doors that I profoundly do not "get"
Unlike the challenging issue of apparent design, my current view
of the Bible seems to me to be VERY intuitive. I look at The Bible
and I see a book written by ancient religious and political leaders
with the intent (conscious or not) to both inspire and control the
people they found themselves responsible for.
Why are convinced it is anything more?
What compels you to believe that The Bible is literally the
True Word of God?
[inkling]
quietlyleaving

do I count as a friend of snowbirds?
What compels you to believe that The Bible is literally the
True Word of God?
counterintuition
(although not a bible believer myself)
Open mind

inkling:
It is no mystery to me why many are convinced by a basic "Argument
From Design". The universe just "feels" designed to it's very core.
It its almost like (for whatever reason) we are hardwired to observe
our environment and implicate design. Evolution is (by admission of
it's strongest advocates) a startlingly counterintuitive idea.
I know it wasn't your main point, but MAN, that was SO well-written.
Thank you.
OM
snowbird

Why are convinced it is anything more?
What compels you to believe that The Bible is literally the
True Word of God?
[inkling]
I was told in the other thread (yeah, that one) that though I may have left the WT, the WT hasn't left me. So, if I begin to sound too WTish, please overlook it.
I believe the Bible is God's revelation of the who, the where, and the how. We, the living, are HERE. There's no denying that fact. From whom, where, and how did this come about? It is my opinion that no other book explains these things as sensibly and believably as the Bible does. Also, the Bible gives the most credible answer as to how wickedness gained a hold on our planet and pinpoints the prime instigator - Satan the Devil.
Since I've come to the conclusion that the Bible is a sensible and believable Book, it doesn't take a great leap of faith to believe the same of its Author. If I said I understand all of His ways, however, I would be deluding myself. Still, that doesn't prevent me from loving Him and accepting the bits and pieces that He has revealed about Himself. I believe His declaration that the time is coming when ALL our questions will be answered!
Wishful thinking? I don't think so. Why not? Because the Author of the Bible didn't have to tell us anything about our situation. He could have simply left us groping about in the darkness. Is it that - a promised reward- that keeps my faith strong? NO. The main reason I have faith in God and the Bible is that I'm an impassioned lover of justice. What happened to the first human pair, and by extension the entire race, was a flagrant show of injustice on the part of Satan. God has promised that He is going to deal with that sorry thing. I live and long for the day when that becomes a reality.
I was going through some personal stuff of my mother (who deceased in 2005) the other day. I came across some correspondence from way back. Although the person to whom this was written is long gone, there was no doubting her love, affection, and concern for that person.
That's the way it is with the Bible. It is a Book from Someone who loves us and wants us to love Him. Anyone can pick it up and read it and instantly be connected with God. It is just as simple as that. If there are any complications, you can bet it's not on God's part. These are my feelings and opinions; anyone else has the option of agreeing or disagreeing.
I'm sorry it took so long to respond. I'm writing this between answering the phone and doing other things at work.
May you have/find peace.
Sylvia
inkling

Thank you, Sylvia.
I have to leave for work now, but I will think your words over and hopfully respond tonight.
[ink]
funkyderek

snowbird:
It is my opinion that no other book explains these things as sensibly and believably as the Bible does.
A big invisible man in the sky created the entire world in six days, he made a man from dust and a woman from the man's rib.
Also, the Bible gives the most credible answer as to how wickedness gained a hold on our planet and pinpoints the prime instigator - Satan the Devil.
An evil invisible man pretended to be a talking snake and convinced a woman to eat a piece of fruit, after which everybody born tended to be a bit evil.
Those are not sensible, believable or credible answers to these questions. If you really haven't found better ones, may I suggest that perhaps you haven't read enough books?
snowbird

A big invisible man in the sky created the entire world in six days, he made a man from dust and a woman from the man's rib.
Yes, an invisible Person - I don't know about the big part.
An evil invisible man pretended to be a talking snake and convinced a woman to eat a piece of fruit, after which everybody born tended to be a bit evil.
Yes, an invisible person bent on evil.
Those are not sensible, believable or credible answers to these questions.
Then, by all means, give us some sensible, believable, credible answers.
Sylvia
Gopher

Sylvia,
I regard you as my friend on this board, even though our views on the "belief" issue are quite different.
I am glad we have a forum where we can at least listen to what other viewpoints are and thereby stretch our mind. I don't think believers and unbelievers will ever convince each other to totally switch sides. That decision only comes from a personal introspection.
I appreciate what Inkling did here in trying to understand your side. I don't think you and Derek will ever reach any agreement on issues of belief, because that's what they are. You firmly believe (for your own reasons) in an invisible father who will someday explain all things and make all things right.
I don't believe there is anyone up there to help us. My "answers" (as you asked from Derek) are found in the ability of mankind, through its philosophies and sciences, to continue to advance civilization. Civilization has surely advanced through the minds of great men.
I hope to not see another thread where you have to defend your belief system in front of a bunch of skeptics. What I hope to see is that everyone on both sides understands that reasonable, intelligent people can view some of the same set of circumstances and arrive at quite different conclusions.
snowbird

Sylvia,
I regard you as my friend on this board, even though our views on the "belief" issue are quite different.
Thank you.
Sylvia
inkling

is my opinion that no other book explains these things as sensibly and believably as the Bible does.
What you are referring to could be called the "explanatory value" of an idea.
For example, a child is watching a TV program with footage of a NASA Mission.
The child sees an astronaut walking up the ramp into the rocket, and then,
a few minutes later, footage is shown of the same man in the same rocket
FLOATING around.
To a child, this is seriously weird.
Why does the same man stick to the ground in one place, and flies above it
the next? It is a observation that demands an explanation.
The explanation is of course, the theory of gravity. The parents would try,
(with varied levels of success) to explain the concept that very very large
objects tend to pull other objects towards them.
If the child is fairly mature and bright, at some point the idea is going to
click, and he goes "ahhh! that makes sense."
When idea makes a confusing observation make sense, we can say that the idea
has good "explanatory value"
We should note of course that just because an idea seems to effectively explain
a strange event does not necessarily mean it is the CORRECT explanation,
just that it seems plausible and convincing to the person who hears it.
Ancient people who noticed the strange pattern of the sun arching overhead
and disappearing only to return the next day came up with an idea that
had powerful explanatory value- The sun must be a supernatural being -a god-
who was traveling across the heavens.
Later, the sun was an object PULLED by a god.
Until more information was available, these made sense.
I would guess that you today do not claim that fiery ball of gas that we now
know the sun to be is being dragged around by the personal finger of God.
I would guess that you belive that The sun appears to rise and set because
of a set of natural laws that we now understand pretty well, and continue
to work without a chain of Godly interventions.
This acceptance pushes the "weirdness" that needs enplaning back the
question of where did those natural laws come from. At this point you say
"well, God invented the laws" and the scientists say "as of yet, we have no
idea"
This seems fair. To you, the idea of a lawmaker God has powerful explanatory
value, and the scientists don't actually have any better answer besides
"we don't know exactly what, but SOMETHING must have happened, because here
the universe is.
To you, that "ahh, that makes sense" moment was when you read the explanation
found in the Bible. This dosn't seem that strange to me, as I used to share the
feeling.
Humans desperately and justifiably NEED explanatory ideas, right or wrong.
without them we go insane, in tiny increments.
However, we also need to be able to let go of old explanations if a new,
more plausible idea comes along.
At the moment, you find the explanation found in The Bible to be the most
plausible one you have ever encountered. Fair enough.
But I ask you:
Is there any conceivable experience (even in theory) that would convince
you the Bible is NOT the word of God?
Secondly, do you feel that any of the other Holy Books contain any truth
from God? If not, how do you know? Have you read them? How do you feel the
Bible differs from them?
[inkling]

An open letter to Snowbird (and friends)

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