by V 22 Replies latest watchtower bible
jgnat...
always good to hear the viewpoint of someone who never was tainted by the JW perspective, yet knows enough because of close family ties to offer the intelligent commentary that you did in this weeks "lesson." I enjoyed it and hope you do it again.......
I am with Outlaw on this though...you sure you were never a dub? (j/k) .,..... you did a hell of a lot better job than I did on my WT comments...in or out of the Borg...
Snakes ()
ps... I hope V cleaned mine up....lol....
Similarly, "like a firepot among trees and like a fiery torch in a row of newly cut grain," footstep followers of Christ in our day set things aflame in a spiritual way. The 1917 book The Finished Mystery* roundly exposed the hypocrisy of Christendom. That brought forth a bitter reaction from the clergy.
Whoever wrote this should not be so proud of the The Finished Myster book. It is a ridiculous book written by a person (Clayton Woodworth) who was not a sound thinker.
Maybe persecution will not stop those cockroaches (any more than can an exterminator wipe out all the roaches out of a city). But, their own behavior will ultimately be their own undoing.
I have had my share of doors slammed in my face out in field circus. But the biggest source of persecution that got me to walk out came from within the organization, and the congregation itself. It was not apostate material, nor was it slanderous reports, that moved me to turn apostate. It was not even some long out of print material. It was that April 1, 1995 Puketower study article and the aftermath from the witlesses doing all they could to fulfill it, that made me decide to take that religion and shove it. That was not something from Satan's world, either.
Eventually, they are going to have even worse persecution. Slammed doors will be followed by ostracism. For now, it is the pedophile scandals hitting the media that will do it. But, in the near future, they will be seen as value destroyers. Their actions in society prevent people from advancing. Their doctrines limit what members can do to improve society. They waste time and resources. Eventually, people will stop tolerating this parasitic drain on the economy and will unleash a backlash that will make the pedophile reports look like penny ante material. The ways they ruin lives and harm society are endless, and soon people will no longer tolerate it.
Even now, they lose people because of internal pressures. And, when the sxxx hits the fan in the next few Kool-Aids, more are going to walk out. The oral sex issue was a foretaste. We saw last week about obeying the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger no matter what. In a few months, they are going to study material about "valueless things", which will be magnified into a total ban on entertainment, relaxation (beyond absolutely necessary sleep), enjoying one's food, education, the Internet, and anything else that competes with field circus. They are already cracking down on missing boasting sessions in many areas, which I suspect will become organization-wide. And that's only the beginning--those Grand Boasting Session reminders, embarrassment badges, and rules are also creating problems.
Eventually, the witless religion is going to be a totally unbearable lifestyle. The outside world will be blamed for pointing out that their doctrines are not in the Bible, and the governments will be blamed for protecting the people from the scams and forced loss of all fun. But most of the real persecution will come, not from doors slammed in the face or dogs sicced on the witlesses, but from all those rules and burdens. Few get beaten as they did in Malawi (and that was because the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger did not yield). But all will have their lives ruined by having to answer to the hounders for everything they do or fail to do. That, not world media exposure, is what's going to embarrass them the most and cause people to walk out.
And, I don't know what happens when people no longer put money into the Worldwide Pedophile Defense Fund. They might start hounding. Or, they might stoop to new lows as stealing funds from accounts, identity theft, or even outright extortion. They might even sue the governments to force all the corporations to pay the Slavebuggers. We might even have a new Watchtower Tax! All that, in a desperate attempt to stay afloat. They might even get with the government to create a new regulatory agency that will protect the Watchtower Society as the sole source of religious material like the FDA is currently with the drug companies, attempting to stamp out all other independent sources. The hope is that they lack the money to pull off such a stunt, and go belly-up trying to establish any of these efforts to establish a religious tyranny within the general public.
And, I hope they run out of money for general operations. I hope they are unsuccessful in any and all attempts to swindle, extort, or coerce people into donating anything, creating new taxes, or establishing a monopoly on religion. I hope that, when they attempt such, the Government gives them something to whine about by banning them totally with a zero tolerance for any religions that initiate force, threat of force, coercion, or fraud against its members or the general public.
Great comments Jgnat. I give you a "G" for logical and coherent development. You may move on to the next point on your theocratic ministry school counsel slip.
Cog
Thanks, V, for posting this up.
AnnOMally: But there are still those in 'divided households' who'd get beaten senseless for going to a meeting or have to flee for their lives because they were studying with JWs (I have people I know in mind).
My apologies, Ann. You are right, of course. I was thinking when I wrote of my own JW hubby who comes home from studies like this crowing about "persecution". I look at him thinking, "Is it so terrible for you?" The ex-JW's who have met us know how well my adorable man is cared for. Persecution my foot.
But you are right. There's a lot of misinformation out there about the Witnesses. Sometimes people react in fear or revulsion, not understanding. I've seen reverse shunning, ultimatums, and other shameful behavior on the part of the "world" towards Witnesses.
snakes: ...never was tainted by the JW perspective...
I'm not sure if I can say I am not tainted! Being exposed to the Witnesses (and JWD) forced me to re-examine ALL of my beliefs. I become more scholarly. I am more confident in what I believe (and don't believe). Also due to the exposure to JW meetings and assemblies, I can barely keep my attention during ANY public talk. My mind screams for individuality.
Outlaw/Snakes: Isn't it comforting to know that someone who WASN'T chewed up and spit out by the Witness machine, can still understand? I think some of the features of the society - denial, self-deception, manipulation, and coersion - do have counterparts out here in the "world". As exited JW's there are selected experiences that you have been through that regular people can relate to.
Your lingo, of course, is unique. Some of your rituals, baffling. It's been a great ride getting to know you all and your unique culture. Survivors, every one of you. I am honored to be numbered in your group, JWD.
Which land has 1,100 documented cases of Witnesses being arrested?
There are probably just as many documented cases of Witnesses being arrested in the United States and Canada - simply because the Witnesses were encouraged by the Watchtower Society leadership to commit acts of civil disobedience and elicited their own arrests (and "persecution") in the early days of the movement in North America. These contrived arrests ("persecution") formed the basis for many of the ground-breaking legal precedents in favour of JWs, including Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms - specifically the clause naming freedom of religious expression as a fundamental human right.
When a group deliberately stirs up civil disobedience and unrest and seeks out "persecution" as the early Witnesses did in North America, how does that mesh with the Apostle Paul's instruction, at 1 Thessalonians 4:11, 12, "to make it your aim to live quietly and to mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we ordered you, so that you may be walking decently as regards people outside and not be needing anything."
What an excellent review, overview of the Watchtower. I like your method of Constructing an argument based on logic rather than history, sometimes a sensible discussion is what is needed to wake up a Jehovah's Witness.
Which land has 1,100 documented cases of Witnesses being arrested?
probably a tongue in cheek dig at us apostates over the Pedophiles they have in their organization
The United Nations article divided persecution in to six categories as follows:
- violations of the principle of non-discrimination in religion and belief
- violations of the principle of tolerance in the area of religion and belief (the reporter specifically condemns religious extremism)
- violations of freedom of thought, conscience, and religion or belief
- violations of the right to manifest one's religion or belief
- violations of the freedom to dispose of religious property
- violations of the right to life, physical integrity and health of persons (clergy and believers)
Having intimate knowledge of the WTS as we do, I think we can all agree that the WTS violates every single one of these rights to its own members.
The WTS
Excellent review Jgnat! To say you've never been a Witness, you did a fantastic review. I hadn't read the whole article before and was disgusted when I saw how they were once again, attempting to downplay all the negative press they've been getting the last few years............
Such accusations and propaganda are often refuted by the fine conduct of Jehovah's Witnesses. (1 Peter 2:12) When Christians prove themselves to be law-abiding citizens and moral people who show genuine concern for the welfare of their fellow humans, the accusations hurled against them are shown up as false.
Typical vague references that have absolutely no basis in reality. Why don't they mention specifically what these "false accusations and propaganda" are? Because obviously if they mention the specifics, they'd have to also show clear evidence as to how they are "false"------something they can't do. There is absolutely no defense for the pedophile disaster whereby they had to settle out of court, nor is there any mention of the UN scandal, or the fact that the WTS owns stock in one of the largest cigarette companies in American: Phillip Morris. What's so pathetic, is that they're shifting the responsibility of all the media attacks onto the R&F by insisting that it's their "fine conduct" that will deflect these 'negative accusations', when in reality, it's because of the lousy conduct of the men at the top that's responsible for all the scandals in the first place.
8) In addition to our godly conduct, it may at times be necessary to defend with boldness our Scriptural position. One way is by appealing to governments and courts for protection.
You mean Jehovah's servants need to ask the governments and courts that are run by Satan for protection? Hmmmm.....what's wrong with this picture?
(Esther 8:3; Acts 22:25-29; 25:1012) When Jesus was on earth, on occasion he openly contended with his critics, refuting their false accusations. (Matthew 12:34-37; 15:1-11) In imitation of Jesus, we welcome the opportunity to give others a clear explanation of our heartfelt convictions. (1 Peter 3:15) May we never allow ridicule at school, at work, or from unbelieving relatives to stop us from making known the truth of God's Word.-2 Peter 3:3, 4.
Yes, and when you're "clear explanation" doesn't hold water against facts, just run as far away from these 'detractors' as you can, knowing that Jehovah will strike them dead any day now for attacking you.
9) Zechariah's prophecy sheds light on the reason why the nations take their stand against true Christians. Note what Zechariah 12:3 says: "It must occur in that day that I shall make Jerusalem a burdensome stone to all the peoples." To which Jerusalem does this prophecy point? Zechariah's prophecy concerning Jerusalem applies to "heavenly Jerusalem," the heavenly Kingdom to which anointed Christians have been called. (Hebrews 12:22)
And what proof do they offer that the "Jerusalem" in Zechariah 12:13 is referring to "heavenly Jerusalem"? Absolutely nothing except their own pre-conceived ideas that Jerusalem and Israel, when given prominence in the latter half of the Hebrew scriptures, must be referring to either the Bible Students or Jehovah's Witlesses. There is nothing to make anyone assume that this scripture is referring to anything except "Jerusalem" itself.
10) Zechariah 12:3 indicates that the nations receive "severe scratches." How does this happen? God has decreed that the good news of the Kingdom must be preached. Jehovah's Witnesses take seriously the obligation to preach. However, the heralding of the Kingdom as mankind's only hope has become "a burdensome stone" to the nations. They try to lift it out of the way by interfering with the Kingdom preachers.
Oh please. No one outside the WTS views the Witnesses preaching about imminent doom for the world as anything other than a joke. The only time the Borganization is viewed seriously is when evidence is given that they are a mind-controlling cult, or when they allow pedophiles to roam the KH's looking for victims, or when a country like France openly says "they're a cult and should not be granted tax-free status" or when one of them die due to the ridiculous ban on blood. To claim that the governments or anyone else views their preaching as some sort of threat is hilarious.
In so doing, the meddling nations have received "severe scratches for themselves," getting all cut up. Even their reputations have been hurt as they meet with humiliating failure . They cannot silence true worshippers, who cherish the privilege of proclaiming the "everlasting good news" of God's Messianic Kingdom before the end of this system of things. (Revelation 14:6) When seeing the violence done to Jehovah's servants, a prison guard in one African land said, in effect: 'You are wasting your efforts in persecuting these people. They will never compromise. They just increase.'
Another laughable assertion. I'd like the Writing Department to name one country who has "severe scratches for themselves" related to the Dubs knocking on doors Saturday mornings fortelling everyone's doom. I'd be far more inclined to believe that the GB members are "scratching themselves" behind closed doors.
12) Read Zechariah 12:5, 6. "The sheiks of Judah" refer to those having oversight among God's people. Jehovah fills these with a fiery zeal in behalf of the earthly interests of his Kingdom.
Or, it could refer to pink flying elephants that circled the moon in 1975 just before taking off to the planet Krypton. There's as much evidence for one as there is for the other.
On one occasion, Jesus told his disciples: "I came to start a fire on the earth." (Luke 12:49) Truly, he did ignite a fire. By his zealous preaching activity, Jesus made God's Kingdom the paramount issue before the people. This sparked heated controversy throughout that Jewish nation. (Matthew 4:17, 25; 10:5-7, 17-20) Similarly, "like a firepot among trees and like a fiery torch in a row of newly cut grain," footstep followers of Christ in our day set things aflame in a spiritual way.
More dramatic assertions that are somewhat wide of the mark. Yes Jesus "started a fire", but it wasn't so much because of his "preaching", but because he openly said that the Pharisees were hypocrites and had become completely fanatical in their view of The Law and called for a reform to moderation and common sense. Plus, anyone who had a following was automatically viewed with suspicion by Rome and we all know what the outcome was.
To compare the bizarre teachings that the Bible Students had in 1917, with the common sense approach that Jesus took is conceit beyond belief.
The 1917 book The Finished Mystery* roundly exposed the hypocrisy of Christendom.
Uh yes......unlike the hypocrisy of the Bible Students and/or the WTS. How many doctrines or beliefs that were put to paper in 1917 do they still teach today???
That brought forth a bitter reaction from the clergy.
Hmm....yes, but they could claim the exact same thing as what the WTS claims whenever they're exposed: 'We're being persecuted, which proves we have the right religion!' Of course, that's something you'll never see in the pages of the Watchtower.
In more recent times, Kingdom News No. 37, "The End of False Religion Is Near!" has moved many people to take their stand either for or against God's Kingdom.
LMAO! This (pathetic) tract, which was supposed to harold in the Great Tribulation just over a year ago has long been forgotten by everyone outside the Borg. I sincerely doubt that 2 pages of hypocritical drivel that that tract laid out did anything more than cure insomnia in the general population. It should have come with a warning at the bottom not to operate heavy equipment or consume alcohol after reading it.
jgnat: I was thinking when I wrote of my own JW hubby who comes home from studies like this crowing about "persecution". I look at him thinking, "Is it so terrible for you?" The ex-JW's who have met us know how well my adorable man is cared for. Persecution my foot.
LOL It reminds me of the parable near the beginning of Chrnalogar's 'Twisted Scriptures.' A scenario where a culty Christian is whining to a 1st century Christian about how badly he's being persecuted. (I'm remembering it imperfectly, but this is the gist)
The 1st century Christian is saying 'Are they demanding you deny Christ?'
'No but they are disagreeing with me and saying I'm wrong with some interpretations.'
'Are they beating and torturing you?'
'No'
'Are they throwing you to the lions in the arenas?'
'No'
'Well how are they persecuting you?'
