The Spread of Muslims in Europe

by serotonin_wraith 94 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • serotonin_wraith
    serotonin_wraith

    The Spread of Muslims in Europe

    It seems inevitable that a hundred or two hundred years from now, the majority of people in Europe will be Muslim. This is based on the number of children they are having compared to non Muslims, and the presumption that they will be told from a very early age they are Muslim too, and taught to believe the same things as their parents. I don't feel that presumption is too much of a stretch.

    Not a day goes by without someone killing, oppressing or preaching hatred in the name of Allah. It may be a minority of the total number of Muslims who do this, but that still amounts to thousands of individuals. It only takes a few of those individuals to set off bombs in crowded areas or fly planes into buildings. While peaceful Muslims can claim Islam is a religion of peace, the facts show that many Muslims don't agree with that, after interpreting the 'holy' books for themselves and seeing it as their mission from God to convert the world to Islam at any cost. Those kind of people are extremely difficult to reason with.

    If they were simply hijacking the religion, if they were simply born with a disposition to want to kill as many people as possible, then surely people would be being born all over the world using all kinds of religions with the same frequency to kill as many people as possible too. This isn't the case. Out of all the world's religions, it is mainly a Muslim issue at this moment in history. What does this tell us? It tells us that if you are raised to be a Muslim, you are more likely to turn to violence than if you were raised as a Christian, or a Hindu, or a Buddhist, and so on.

    People in the Middle East are not passing on bad genes, they are passing on bad ideas. Once a person believes Allah is real, they may be influenced by scripture or radical preachers to kill for Allah. It isn't hard to imagine. When we believed in the god of the Jehovah's Witnesses, we were prepared to let our children die because of our belief that taking blood went against God and the hope of an eternal afterlife in paradise. If you truly believe the creator of the universe wants you to kill, you don't question it. You do an Abraham and obey out of fear, or wanting to please the Lord. Christians very often defend the stories in the Bible describing the Almighty's genocidal acts and commands. We know exactly what it's like to have the kind of belief that can lead to or defend terrible acts. Our sense of righteousness and conviction as God's chosen people overrode any concerns we may have otherwise had.

    Consider the chances of turning to violence in the name of Allah I would have compared to a peaceful Muslim. I don't believe Allah exists. The chances of me killing in the name of a fictional character are zero, and even if I was medically insane, that insanity would have to lead to a belief in Allah before I carried out what I thought was his will. Now consider the chances of a peaceful Muslim carrying out violent acts for Allah. The belief in the fictional character is already there, so that's one massive hurdle overcome. It could be a 1% chance, a 2% chance, it doesn't matter. However small the percentage, there would still be a chance. The chances of winning the lottery are much, much lower, yet with the number of people playing, somebody wins most weeks. The greater the number of Muslims, the greater the chance one of them will think they have to kill for Allah.

    Teaching children the peaceful side of Islam is no protection. The suicide bombers who struck London had peaceful Muslims for parents, yet they were influenced from elsewhere, an influence which would have had no effect at all if they hadn't been taught to believe in Allah in the first place.

    There is just as much reason to believe in Allah as there is to believe in fairy tale characters, and I will use those characters to show how ridiculous the situation actually is. Imagine if several million people believed Cinderella was a real historical event. They took comfort in the story of the rags to riches tale, they were humble and giving and loving, emulating the lead character so that they could be rewarded in a similar manner. Their meekness and suffering would deem them worthy in the end of their own happy ever after. So far, so good.

    Now imagine a minority of Cinderellists who saw a different side to the story. They identified with the stepmother and ugly sisters. They were their true selves, and that wasn't good enough to have their reward. Their sister uses magic powers to transform herself, to make herself appear prettier, richer, with the best horse and carriage, instead of showing who she really was - a poor, grubby lady with a large pumpkin and mice for friends. These Cinderellists saw that beauty was deceiving, and thought the Prince only appreciated her once he found her again because he'd seen her at her best before. Lying was rewarded, while honesty was not. So they decide every woman should be covered head to toe in black, so as not to deceive men.

    You can picture the response from the moderates. "They're not following the true meaning of the story!" "They are hijacking the Cinderella belief!" "The writer never meant for this historical event to be used in this manner!" Sound familiar?

    But here's the thing. If nobody believed in the literal events of Cinderella, because there was no reason to, then any negative acts done in relation to the story would be non existent (as they are now).

    Some Muslims only call themselves Muslims because their family are too. They've never read the Koran, they don't pray five times a day, they know nothing of the flying horse tale. It's just a label they don't think about much. I know because I've spoken to a few, and I've managed to convince them to actually look into the beliefs to see if they should be calling themselves Muslims. After their initial shock that I would be questioning the teachings of Islam, they discovered they were defending something they had very little knowledge of.

    Those who know more about their beliefs may only hold to them because they believe they have good reasons to. Once you know the arguments, and can show people there is no reason to believe in Allah, many can give up their belief. It's happened with many here regarding the Jehovah's Witnesses. When the facts were evident it was too difficult to just 'rely on jehovah' and use the faith card. Faith is not always enough, and that's something I'm sure we're all grateful for because it helped us leave behind a delusion which was wasting our lives and which gave cover and support to some very nasty things.

    At the very least, I think people should be aware that anything they teach their children is going to be believed, whether it's about Allah or the literal story of Cinderella. Such is the power of childhood indoctrination. Their minds are in their parents' hands, and telling them they are Muslim is forcing them to believe a particular set of beliefs, because they cannot filter what is bullshit or not when their minds are still forming.

    While the easiest, most comfortable method is to just leave them alone to believe what they want, I can think of no other way, short of violence which I do not condone, to counter the danger the spread of Islam is going to bring to Europe than breaking taboo and talking to them about it. Questioning what they believe. If we respect them as people, perhaps we should respect them enough to believe some may be reasonable and rational enough to see their beliefs are not grounded in universal reality, only the reality which exists inside their brains, which is not a true representation of the powers controlling the universe or what is to come after death.

    Rather than people bring up the problems of Christianity (if anyone reads all of this!) I'd prefer this stayed focused on the Muslims. I'm well aware of the dangers from other religions, but saying "why single one out?" doesn't help solve the problem. I don't single one out - I've spoken about Christianity too, but in other threads.

  • FairMind
    FairMind

    I agree with most of what you said. The problem is there are many who don't understand the truth of the threat the Muslim world poses. So these people become road blocks to any action that will head off the calamaties to come. Frustrating as hell isn't it!

  • free2beme
    free2beme

    The Muslim religion is like a virus and preys on the uneducated and downtrodden members of our society. It will lead to a worldwide religious war in the future, but will become so intertwined in society by that point, that it will be impossible to stop without extreme measures.

  • marmot
    marmot

    The key to defusing all this is education.

    Get as many muslim kids enrolled in University as possible, higher education tends to dampen religious fanaticism and it will also lead to better social conditions so muslims will have less of a persecution complex to fester over.

    It's not a panacea, but it's a start.

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    People in the Middle East are not passing on bad genes, they are passing on bad ideas.

    Richard Dawkins calls that a meme

  • darkuncle29
    darkuncle29

    Maybe a dialoge with ex-muslims and comparing those findings with anti cult techniques (Steven Hassan) could be useful. I think eat cult or extreme group has a unique mindset that underlies the common cult traits, and addressing that psychologically may help some free themselves.

    Live and let live is a nice sentiment, but you have to keep a whatch on rabid dogs. And one must be ever so careful not to become one too.

    Islam/Christianity...its all kool aid, just different flavors.

  • 5go
    5go

    The US isn't immune either.

    At present, the number of Muslims in the United States is estimated to be on the order of between 5 to 8 million. It is the fastest growing faith in this country. Estimates indicate that by the year 2000, the number of Muslims in the United States will be greater than that of the Methodists, and that by the year 2010 the number will have doubled to 10 to 16 million. The estimated conversion rate among Americans is 135,000 per year. The Defense Department reports that there are now approximately 9000 Muslims on active duty in the U.S. armed services (it is reported that more than 3000 Americans embraced Islam during the Gulf war alone). A vast network of Muslim ministries also caters to some 300,000 converts in prisons, with an estimated conversion rate of 35,000 per year.

    They are converting people too you guys know?I hope.

  • shamus100
    shamus100

    In the name of Allah I blow up everyone in this thread.

  • oompa
    oompa

    OMG this is scary, and has scared me a long time. I almost thought nukem all (muslim countries) and let allah sort it out. And who of all people realized this was in IDEA problem that needed a place a change in IDEAS would be allowed.....G W Bush of all people. These people do not stand a chance at evolving into a rational faith without changing their enviornment so that it can accept free thinking and ideas. I do not know if this is possible, but as often as I have wondered if dubua was an idiot....sometimes I wonder if his vision was huge on what freedom and democracy could accomplish if planted in the heart of allahdom...........................................oompa

  • barry
    barry

    On a more positive note many muslims when they come to western countries become apostates to Islam. It is estimated there are 200,000 apostates in england who under sharia law should be put to death. Muslims have the freedom to do what they want in western countries and havent got the threat of death over them as they have in the country they leave. eg in Pakistan anyone can be put to death for apostacy and people live in fear of being accused.

    Many of these people who migrate are name only muslims some muslims became christian when they arrived in Australia.

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