Arguing with witnesses on myspace.

by mkr32208 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • moomanchu
    moomanchu
    Jehovah God originally intended the earth to be inhabited by people who live forever and take care of the earth and creation on it, right? His purpose hasn't changed. and still intends the earth to be inhabited in this way. We as human creations of his will not forever grow old and die. There will come a time when he will restore paradise to its original condition. If this doesn't happen, then that would mean that he IS NOT the most powerful being in the universe. He will not let ANY enemy thwart his original purpose. Since what he says ALWAYS comes true, we can have full confidence in this promise.

    First paragraph of his profile . I hate this argument.

    Jehovah's promised the Jews all kinds of things to time indefinite, but then it seems plans got changed.

  • mkr32208
    mkr32208

    You know what... I'm retarded...

    I'm fighting with this fool on YOUTUBE not myspace... Sorry... He's one of the one's posting a zillion pro witness movies on you tube...

  • carla
    carla

    Nice job! I like this "light gets brighter not righter", found it very amusing this morning.

    Why do people assume that God did in fact intend for people to live forever in Eden? Where does it say that? If God is all knowing didn't he know that Adam & Eve would in fact eat the forbidden fruit and be expelled from the Garden? Would we really have free will if we did not know good & evil and be able to choose for ourselves? Would we really be able to grow if we lived in some utopia where all was supplied for us, there was no illness to cure, no problems to solve, no need for empathy towards others, etc....

    ps- I forgot which is it that jw's do not believe that God is omnicient, or omnipresent?

  • mkr32208
    mkr32208

    Their response-

    I certainly don't feel the need to respond to every single one of your vicious verbal attacks, especially since you made it clear that you don't respect mine! I really don't have time to waste anyway. You obviously are set in YOUR beliefs as I am set in MINE and have hurled accusations at me from the start. I have studied both sides more thoroughly than you may know. I was disfellowshipped and put out at one point in my life. But, that was the best thing that happened to me. There are ample evidences that organized religion is christian. Do I have the right one? Well, that is for me and you to decide independently. We both stand independently before God.

    I believe that you are lacking in some important details such as our stand on blood. I will address briefly this one point you have mentioned in your last email. You claim, as it appears, that we are holding only to the Old Testiment. However consider Acts 15:20 in various versions of the Bible. Here are just a few. These are not OUR translations. When doing personal study, by the way, I use multiple versions as our organization does.

    "20Instead we should write to them, telling them to ABSTAIN from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood." (NIV)

    "20 Instead, we should write and tell them to ABSTAIN from eating food offered to idols, from sexual immorality, from eating the meat of strangled animals, and from consuming blood." (NEW LIVING)

    "20But that we write unto them, that they ABSTAIN from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood." (KJV)

    Definition of ABSTAIN from Websters online dictionary: to refrain deliberately and often with an effort of self-denial from an action or practice <abstain from drinking>

    If a doctor told you to "refrain" or "abstain" from alcohol, would it be proper to put it into your veins? Of course not! It is no different with blood. God STILL wants us to respect the sacredness of life and blood, even today. He is the one who gave us the life in the first place. So, I guess our decision NOT to take blood is a spiritual one, but also there are medical and physical reasons NOT to take blood. The medical field is heavily gravitating towards non-blood procedures for many reasons. Modern technology has advanced greatly and new techniques are available to eliminate the use of transfusions. Studies have shown that doctors have been more "careless" during surgeries since they know they can just give the patient blood during sergery. It has been shown that this doesn't have to be the case. It has been shown that patients who use non-blood alternatives actually recover faster and with less mortality rate.

    It amazes me that people criticize our personal beliefs about blood transfusions when doctors themselves are WIDELY accepting the non-blood alternative proceedures more and more each day. What if I refused treatment for cancer (or any other procedure) that would save my life? Would you protest that too??? And, who is to say that critically ill patients would have died ANYWAY, even if they DID receive a transfusion! Sometimes, life threatening illnesses will just kill anyway. It is a part of life in the world we now live.

    Also, obedience to God SHOULD come before any man (Acts 5:29). People in general hold fast to their beliefs even until death. Look at people who enlist in the armed forces and have vowed to DIE for their cause IF NEED BE! We feel the same way, yet we are criticized for it. What about that FREE country that Americans especially are so proud of? It is our own bodies! We should make the decisions, according to patriotic beliefs, right? Freedom of religion, freedom of press, etc., right?? But, Jesus didn't hold a political office or give ANY support or devotion to any man-made government. On the contrary, he told us NOT to be a part of it.

  • mkr32208
    mkr32208

    My response=

    No no no no no... There you go off on a witness caught with their pants down tangent. I'm more than happy to show you how all your beliefs are wrong but lets just agree to not throw a bunch of your hippie nonsense feelings in the mix and just deal with what the BIBLE says ok. Not your trumped up 'but it's healthier, these people would have died anyway' garbage, ok!

    So... We'll start with an EASY one. Blood.

    The symbol of life (blood) and other 'sacred' items are NEVER represented in the bible as more important than the life itself. This is made clear again and again and again. What happened to Saul and his men when they ate the food that was sacred to avoid starvation? What happened to the Israelite who came upon a dead animal that hadn't been bled and ate the meat to avoid starvation? Clearly it was more important to God that you broke a minor law to stay alive than to die. As you stated gods standards don't change so why should we believe that standard has changed? LIFE is still more important than the SYMBOL of life.

    Now we'll deal with your lie that I only quoted the OT. What did PAUL say to do if you came upon meat that hadn't been bled in the market or had been sacrificed in one of the temples and the meat was being sold? He said if there is a risk of stumbling a brother EAT THE MEAT! Clearly gods standards had not changed! It was more important to eat the meat and not risk the SPIRITUAL life of the person that you might stumble. LIFE was STILL more important than the symbol. Why is it exactly opposite with the witnesses? Do you think that god is pleased that your religion has twisted this so badly that the symbol has become more important than what it represents? Do you think that god is PLEASED when one of your members martyrs themselves rather than violate one of the minor laws? What do you think Jesus would say? Strain the gnat while gulping the camel and all that?

    The next point of your argument is that if your told not to EAT alcohol would it be ok to inject it. This isn't an argument for you, it's an argument for ME, it clearly shows that the bible writers were referencing EATING not using blood in medical procedures that hadn't even been CONSIDERED at that point in history. Eating blood is not the same as injecting it for medical reasons. This is why the Dr doesn't give blood transfusions to someone who is starving. The body doesnt absorb the blood that is injected it is used to carry oxygen and nutrients. The writers of the bible didn't know about blood transfusions and weren't referencing them they were referencing EATING BLOOD.

    As to the statement that there are "also medical and physical reasons not to take blood" what does that have to do with a discussion of what the BIBLE says?

    Oh well if that's the road we're going down then I will go down it with you. You are partially correct, blood transfusion are not 100% safe and effective in all cases and certainly the medical community has started to give less blood and attempt to come up with alternate therapies. That said you are being lied to about the LEVEL of the dangers in blood transfusions. If you are shot or stabbed or in a car accident and all your blood is running out in a big ol puddle you WILL DIE if you don't get a blood transfusion that is a fact. Can their be complications? YES! Could you die ANYWAY? YES! Is a transfusion with a 99.999% safety record better than a 99.999% chance that YOU WILL DIE if you don't get it better? HELL YES!

    You are being deceived about matters of life and death!!! Why is it ok to take 95% of the components that make up blood as a conscience matter? In fact the only parts that you can't take amount to the water in the blood! That's like saying you can't eat a hamburger but you can eat a meat patty and a bun and a tomato slice and even some cheese so long as you don't eat any of the sesame seeds and you never under any circumstances put all the parts TOGETHER and eat it!

    Ridiculous... And now you can use your own blood that's been recirculated and cleaned (so much for pouring it on the ground) also you can now take organ transplants (new light don't you know... Too bad if you DIED waiting for that new light) and here's a news flash for you THERE IS NO WAY TO GET ALL THE BLOOD OUT OF AN ORGAN FOR TRANSPLANT!

    Check this website (I think it's run by a witness) for details http://www.ajwrb.org/... SOOOO now that's changed and apparently YOU didn't even know! Hope you get a chance to check that out before you or a loved one has an emergency!

    This is a clear case of (drum roll please) cognitive dissonance! Yeah! You know that I'm right on this and your brain says wow that makes perfect sense but I DON'T WANT TO BELIVE THAT I'M BEING LIED TO! Therefore... Change the subject!

    I'm willing to have a 'study' with you online and help bring you out of this cult. You deal with this issue first and then we'll move on to the next chapter ok!

  • avishai
    avishai

    >>>There are ample evidences that organized religion is christian<<<<


    What the heck is that supposed to mean?

  • mkr32208
    mkr32208

    Who knows, he's (or she's) a complete dork...

    The only reason I'm arguing with them is I need a break from arguing with bill collectors. I'll probrably get about as far with them as I do with the bill collectors!

  • GoddessRachel
    GoddessRachel

    Well keep up the good work, I think, if you have it in you. I think arguing with Witnesses is futile as they will never see your point, EVER. They might come to the same point on their own at some later time, so maybe sowing your seeds of doubt is a good thing to do.

  • BreakingAway
    BreakingAway

    I only want to address one thing and that's the blood/alcohol analogy instituted by the WT as it's wrong on so many levels.First, the body does NOT produce alcohol.If it did many guys would have a tap installed.Second, not even the most die hard drunk or alcoholic would inject alcohol into their veins ! Third, Alcohol isn't used to sustain ones life.If anything, it can have the opposite effect.Fourth (and here's the biggy)....

    "If a doctor told you to "refrain" or "abstain" from alcohol, would it be proper to put it into your veins?"

    Well, in that case.....if you're told to abstain from alcohol would you rush out of the office, grab a bottle of Vodka and head on down to the local lab to have them break it down into fractions so you can drink it that way !?! Cause that's what they're doing with blood, isn't it ?

  • BreakingAway
    BreakingAway

    Oh...and one more thing.Just in case a Witness would jump in and say: "Well, I don't take ANY fractions, so there ! "

    That's not really the point , is it ? The point is the Society APPROVES of it (taking fractions) and so do many Witnesses.

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