Death Fear and Hope Envy on the forum (page 2)

BurnTheShips

Excellent post Slim. You nailed it. I don't fear death. I faced it in my 20s and decided it wasn't so bad.

Burn

ex-nj-jw

Why do non-believers and blatant atheists try so hard to kick
the god out of those that do believe?

Why do believers try so hard to push the bible and god down our throats?

I'm not afraid of death I just hope whenever it comes it comes quick. When it comes I'll deal with whatever the afterlife is good/bad time will tell. As for envy, I don't envy anyone especially those that feel the need to constantly tell me to find jesus and where to find him or anyone who insists on being my judge and jury. I actually feel sorry for them that they can't simply live their life, be happy and stop trying to save the world with god, jesus and the bible.

The belief in religion, jesus, god and the bible have been around for quite some time. And I think if anyone want's to "find it" they know where to go and get it.

nj

BizzyBee

But what about those of us who have lost faith in the Witnesses and in God: why are we often just as fierce, caustic and bitter

Anger at having been 'duped' perhaps?

Samuel Johnson said:

"Every man who attacks my belief diminishes in some degree my confidence in it, and therefore makes me uneasy and I am angry with him who makes me uneasy."

Writer Peter De Vries lost a child to cancer. One of his ficitional characters, a man whose young daughter is dying, says this:

"What baffles me is the comfort people find in the idea that somebody dealt this mess. Blind and meaningless chance seems to me so much more congenial - or at least less horrible. Prove to me that there is a God and I will really begin to despair."

5go

"What baffles me is the comfort people find in the idea that somebody dealt this mess. Blind and meaninless chance seems to me so much more congenial - or at least less horrible. Prove to me that there is a God and I will really begin to despair."

So true, if there is a god he damn well better have a better explanation than the one he supposedly left in the bible or other religious books.

Homerovah the Almighty

I think the biggest argument particularly in this forum is how the WTS deliberately manipulates and exploits the fear of death to propagate the control in people as a

marketing ploy to sell their printed literature.

The difference between religion and atheism is one can bring a great amount of power and wealth and the other brings absolutely nothing .

Its the expressed effort on part of the JWS in taking this kind of control of people that is the most objectionable.

The many inter personal relationships with immediate family members for example that have been destroyed and thrown to the gutter all for the cause

and sake of this corrupt religion.

The major problem as I see it is yes the WTS is selling immortality in paradise but its the way and means which they market this ideology and what results

occur from that on a human social scale.

I am an atheist at heart but also a humanist as well !

Eliveleth

Slim: A very good post with a lot of insight. I agree that fear makes for angry rebuttals if our belief is not sure, if it is based on what we have been told and not what we have found out for ourselves. I know that when I was a Wtiness very often if the person I was talking to was familiar with their Bible, I would be frustrated that they could not see "the truth". I think that even though it doesn't change us at the time, that these people were part of the journey out of the WT. You have a very balanced view.

I feel like Mouthy does to a degree. I am not afraid to die, and when it happens I will find out if my hope has been realized or I will find out nothing. In the meantime, I do have hope and that sustains me and brings me joy and peace.

TD said: I'm not sure if the hope envy premise accounts for the fact that many people have suffered real, lasting injury at the hands of this religion and it's adherents.

I believe that what you are saying is true to a great extent. Many people have been hurt by religion. So many people equate Christianity with religion. They are not necessarily the same. We left the church this summer because we felt that we were being led by men and not the Holy Spirit in their services. We choose to worship God as Lord every minute of every day and not just at certain times.

nj said: need to constantly tell me to find jesus and where to find him or anyone who insists on being my judge and jury. I actually feel sorry for them that they can't simply live their life, be happy and stop trying to save the world with god, jesus and the bible.

nj I have a problem with this kind of people also. Even though I am a strong believer, I do not think anyone should push their belief on anyone else. I hope that no one feels that I have done this in my posts. It totally goes against my grain.

I hope that we can all discuss our beliefs and learn from one another with an open mind. I know that I try to do this. I totally respect all of you.

Love and hugs,

Velta

Gopher

Here's what a believer said:

I do not care what someone else believes. It is not for me to impose my way on you, but I do enjoy discussion and debate.

I'd say most believers on here are Christian. It's in the very nature of some of the world's major religous groups to be evangelical. They earnestly believe that non-believers will suffer eternally, and often teach that non-believers are to be distrusted, feared or even hated. That has led to wars fueled by religious fervor.

As a non-believer, I don't belong to any group that seeks to impose its will on others. It's those belonging to the believing groups who have a life-or-death urgency to what they espouse.

So I don't care what people believe, but I do reserve the right to state my case on this forum. And it's not out of hope-envy, it's just out of my reasoning -- and not a need to "convert" anyone. (I do care that religious organizations exert an undue influence on science-related education and on American politics. But that's a whole 'nother discussion.)

Death Fear and Hope Envy on the forum