My husband is reading about the initial fulfillment of the last days....

by cognac 35 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  cognac

  Awwww, thanks Vin!!!

  I don't know what he's afraid of... I think he just has things in his head a certain way and never thought of things any other way...
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  Cc81

  cognac, it will all be ok!!!! Sometimes we just need to hear that right?
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  BabaYaga

  Hang in there, Cognac... miracles happen everyday but sometimes they take a while.
  
  Thanks for the great links, Vinny.
  
  Cheers,
  Baba
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  Eyes Open

  I don't know the background to your situation cognac, but I guess it would be a mistake to push anything on him, especially if it specifically mentioned JW's. Maybe keep to resources which don't do so?

  A great site: frontline: apocalypse!
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  cognac

  cognac, it will all be ok!!!! Sometimes we just need to hear that right?

  It's not that I was even upset... Just wanted to drink a beer, watch american idol on youtube and relax... Then I had to think...
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  Leolaia

  Reading the text in a way that imposes "two fulfillments" salvages the prophecy because not everything related in the passage happened in the first century AD (i.e. within the lifetime of those alive in AD 70 and who heard Jesus). But if you take the text on its own terms and forget for the moment that it is the 21st century, and just carefully observe how the passage is written and what it relates, I don't think a "double fulfillment" is something that is present in the text itself. It must be read into the text. Moreover, there is a difference between the construction of the apocalypse in Mark and the apocalypse in Matthew. The former (the older version, the source of Matthew) construes everything together as a single series of events, whereas Matthew inserts the theme of an "apparent delay" (but still within the lifetime of those who first read the book). This is generally understood by Bible scholars as indicating that Mark was written close to AD 70 (one early tradition was that it was written after the death of Peter), while Matthew was written sometime afterwards (such as AD 80-90).

  Early Christians expected the parousia in the first century AD....just read Paul, or Jude (which also addresses the apparent delay), or Revelation. Reading Revelation in a way that makes it refer to the distant future also neglects what the book itself says.
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  isaacaustin

  There is no double fulfillment. These are all talking about a future event- beyond the lifetime of those Jesus was speaking to at that time. Reading Matt 24, Mark 14 and Luke 21 side by side will reveal this...as well as show the Gentile time have been since the day of Adam's sin right up until armageddon. The WT haphazardly applies these verses to 70ce...actually applying Luke 21 to 70ce up until verse 23 but applying verse 24 to 607BCE to arrive at their not so magical formula pointing to 1914. Jesus had, prior to this already spoken of the destruction coming in 70ce...this conversation was totally a different topic.
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  cognac

  Jesus had, prior to this already spoken of the destruction coming in 70ce...this conversation was totally a different topic.

  So, if this had its fulfillment in 70 C.E. then Jesus started ruling then?
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  Leolaia

  These are all talking about a future event- beyond the lifetime of those Jesus was speaking to at that time.

  That is not something you would get from reading Mark and Matthew. Quite the opposite.
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  isaacaustin

  Jesus had, prior to this already spoken of the destruction coming in 70ce...this conversation was totally a different topic.

  So, if this had its fulfillment in 70 C.E. then Jesus started ruling then?

  This did not have any fulfillment in 70ce (Matt 24, mark 14 and Luke 21). here, let me say it this way:

  From the NWT: Matt 24:

  1 Departing now, Jesus was on his way from the temple, but his disciples approached to show him the buildings of the temple. 2 In response he said to them: “Do YOU not behold all these things? Truly I say to YOU , By no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down.”

  This was not fulfilled in 70ce. To this day the base of the temple exists, aka the wailing wall. He is talking here of something other than physical Jerusalem. He is speaking of Christianity in the end of time who falls into a sick Jerusalem-like spiritual condition.

  70 ce was already spoken of extensively and to a different audience in ch 23:

  33 “Serpents, offspring of vipers, how are YOU to flee from the judgment of Ge·hen´na? 34 For this reason, here I am sending forth to YOU prophets and wise men and public instructors. Some of them YOU will kill and impale, and some of them YOU will scourge in YOUR synagogues and persecute from city to city; 35 that there may come upon YOU all the righteous blood spilled on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zech·a·ri´ah son of Bar·a·chi´ah, whom YOU murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly I say to YOU , All these things will come upon this generation.

  37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her,—how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks together under her wings! But YOU people did not want it. 38 Look! Y OUR house is abandoned to YOU . 39 For I say to YOU , Y OU will by no means see me from henceforth until YOU say, ‘Blessed is he that comes in Jehovah’s name!’”

  He is speaking hear to the religious leaders regarding their upcoming sacking by the Romans.

  3 While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”