The evolution & creation dilemma? It’s driving me mad

by Mr. Majestic 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Mr. Majestic

  My mind has been twisting for a few months now. I suppose I am trying to fill the void left by the faith I’ve lost. That is all but gone. But I am trying to make sense of what is. That is proving very elusive.

  I don’t really want to get into a heated debate about evolution and creation. I hate it when those threads get so dogmatic. I mean, who knows for sure? But this is my take. Please be gentle…..

  My dilemma is I can’t get my head around evolution. I have not looked deep enough into it yet, but I am having to, being I have no answers. But for me, the "first cause" lets that theory down (Not the big bang, but the first organism to exist). I have read a few explanations about the "first cause" but it didn’t really stick with me personally. Links between species is another part of evolution that I would like to know more about, but it does seem funny that there is not more fossilisation that shows the links between species, if any, although I have been told that there is evidence. I would like to see more of that kind of evidence if there is.

  So that is a little about how I view evolution. But now this is the other side of how I feel.

  When I look at creation, and even when I was a JW, I used to look at the way that things were created and wonder however someone who was a "loving creator" could make things the way that they are. There was always the theory that things are not like they were before the fall from grace, and especially after the flood, things changed in the creation that would cause life for the rest of creation to be different. I am talking about the way that animals rip each other apart just so that they could eat. I was supposed to believe that there were no animals that ate meat before the flood and it was only out of the necessity that they did it after, but it was going to go back to the way that it was before the fall from grace. That was a very nice way to view it. But I never bought into the theory that it was the flood that change things so dramatically. I mean, why do the big cats run so fast if all they needed to eat was "straw" as the bible claims? Why is it that nature has such a brilliant way of catching its prey, if all it was really supposed to eat is fruit? You get where I am coming from…..

  I look at creation and the way that it is, and I can only explain away how it is by evolution. I never thought I would see the day I would say it, but how can you see a god of any worth making things as brutal as the creation is all around us? Loving he is definitely not, bearing in mind the fate that many of his creative works have to suffer. And it could only have been designed that way.

  I can’t fit nature into a god of love, but evolution explains away creation so perfectly. There is the kinder part of life I know, and it is not all just brutality, but at the end of the day, you watch any nature program and there is always a part that perturbs me as to how brutal it is. I used to turn a blind eye. But I was only fooling myself….

  So now I can’t buy god either, at least what I thought was god. But why would anyone make things as they are, even if there is a god, but a cruel one??? It makes no sense at all…..

  I doubt both theories now and just don’t know what to believe at all. Not easy when you have had faith, and when you are missing it…..

  P.S. Does anyone know of any other theories apart from these two….??? (plausible ones. No "tin foil" hats please. LOL)
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  DT

  I doubt both theories now and just don’t know what to believe at all.

  I feel for you, but also applaud you. Both theories should be doubted and viewed skeptically. You have reached a stage of growth that many people don't achieve in their entire lifetime. It can be difficult, but I suggest taking your time and examining the basics first without feeling to pressured to accept or reject the big theories all at once. I might also suggest eventually looking into quantum mechanics and its relationship to intelligent observers. It's a tough topic, but it can provide an unique perspective on these big issues and lead to questions you might not otherwise think of asking.
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  DanTheMan

  But for me, the "first cause" lets that theory down (Not the big bang, but the first organism to exist).

  Evolution doesn't address the issue of "first causes". This is a separate area of research.

  All evolutionary theory postulates is that biological organisms change over time in response to their environment, and there's mountains of evidence that shows that this is the case. If you're interested at looking at some of the evidence, I'd suggest you start with the '29 Evidences' website.
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  Homerovah the Almighty

  History has shown us that the belief in gods or a god were mainly structured and developed on the basis of human ignorance or the lack of knowledge of the world we live in.

  In a counter balance to that known ignorance, scientific discovery and established facts derived from those discoveries has swayed modern man to stop thinking that there are

  invisible but powerful spirits swarming around causing climactic damage to humans and inciting fear to the detriment to the population. It does seem to me and probably many

  others thats it's better for man to live in a world of continuing knowledge and to work with this knowledge with the intent to better the human experience. It also seems in an

  unfortunate way that religious men like the JWS. have utilized and exploited that ancient ignorance and fear to cultivate their own source of power and control, negating the advancement

  of man to better his existence along with it. So the question we have to ask are selfs would it be better to let the gods governed and control us or are we better to do it are selfs ?

  My vote is on the humans
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  Homerovah the Almighty

  It is both intelligent and honest to except the known, its also intelligent and honest to except the unknown which is yet to be discovered .

  How about we just let the discoveries of science and knowledge take its course and be grateful for what we have found and utilize it to are ability

  after all it will be humanity that will be the beneficiary from it in the long run.
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  Deputy Dog

  Mr. Majestic I believe this "dilemma" has more to do with Philosophy than faith (religion) or science.
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  Awakened07

  'Creationism' is one of the many reasons I could no longer be a Jehovah's Witness. The Watchtower - who I thought would not lie (...) - did in fact lie, or at least distort scientific data, mis-quoted scientists, omitted new data, quoted outdated sources... Anything to support creationism and ridicule evolution theory. As I have researched more, I've found that other religious people and organizations are no different. They lie, cheat and distort in some sort of 'holy war' against evolution theory. There is no 'peer reviewing' of material. If someone says they've found evidence against evolution, it's swallowed fur and all. Often quoted with no sources.

  The truth is that the only reason evolution theory is attacked, is because it challenges a literal understanding of Genesis. Had it been about something different, or the Bible hadn't had a creation story at all, evolution theory would be as solid in everyone's mind as any other scientific theory.

  It's important to understand that evolution theory, as it currently stands, does not address the origin of life. Darwin did touch on that subject, but it is not part of the theory. The origin of life is dealt with in abiogenesis hypotheses, which are still not theories.

  There are many facts of nature. It is a fact that when you drop an object from a height, it will fall to the ground. Einstein's general theory of relativity is the theory that explains how and why it happens. It is a fact that fossils are found in different strata of rock, oldest and least developed furthest down, and gradually more complex further up through time, layer by layer. The rock layers can be dated using several independent radiometric dating methods. It turns out it is so universal that certain fossils are found in certain strata, that one can see which strata are the oldest compared to others by looking at the fossils they contain. But to find out the age, one of course date the strata using said dating methods.

  You will hear that there are no transitional fossils. Of course, there are numerous, from all types of animal and plant life. In fact, even so, one doesn't even have to look at fossils, one can look at living animals, because they have vestigial organs. Like whales and dolphins, which have non-functioning rudiments of hip bones and femurs etc. But if one does look at the fossils, there are numerous transitional forms that have functional limbs where these rudiments are now found.

  If one wants to form some sort of alternative creation theory, one would have to explain why a creator would create myriads of slightly different animals each in their own successive time period. One would also have to explain why certain animals which live in utter darkness have rudimentary eyes, sometimes beneath the skin. It would be kinda strange to specially create them that way to live in dark regions. Plus many other examples.

  In addition, there is evidence in biology. Biology shows that we are closely related to several animal groups, some closer than others. There are signs that two ape chromosomes at one time fused into one which is now found in humans. At least, human chromosome #2 shows signs of being just such a fusion (humans have 23 chromosome pairs, great apes have 24 pairs).

  I could write a book, but I'll just say that whatever you do, at least research the latest work by reputable scientists before you make up your mind. I've just finished reading a book by paleontologist Donald Prothero called "Evolution: What the fossils say and why it matters." which I'll recommend. It covers most areas in depth, also claims by creationists.

  YouTube is not a 'scientific source', but it doesn't stop it from being a good resource if one know what to look for. Here's one in a good series of videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w57_P9DZJ4 You should watch that entire series.
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  DanTheMan

  Nice link Awakened07, although the Kirk Cameron bits were more than I could take. Some people are such morons that it physically hurts for me to contemplate their very existence.
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  LtCmd.Lore

  I reccomend you watch these videos. http://richarddawkins.net/growingupintheuniverse
  You can download them for free.

  Yeah they were made for children, but this is stuff that we SHOULD have learned as children but didn't.

  If you don't have high speed internet, I suggest you buy them, since they're 100MB each. It's only $20.00 for the whole series.

  Lore - W.W.S.D?
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  MissingLink

  I was going to respond with the link to the vidoes that Awakened mentioned above. These are very easy to understand overviews of the evolutionary processes that do a great job in a very short time.

  One point to add - if supposedly animals were all sweet vegetarians before the flood, then WHY are there fossils of dinosours with crunched up little dinosours inside their bellies? Its obvious they ate each other. Everything about them and every other creature that has ever lived is "designed" for killing or avoiding being killed. Is this a loving design? Hardly.