Is apartheid really dead?

by LouBelle 44 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Aliboy

  Loubelle,

  The foundations of World Empires are always laid with initial assaults on the land by the invader; followed looting of resources (mineral and human); then when it is expedient, invasion and a subsequent brutal subjugation/pacification of the people of the land. Thereafter, the indigenees existence is subgect to the inclinations and desires of the invader/occupier.

  In a nutshell, 'south africa' was a European province carved out in the land of Africans by violence and maintained by force. It was never legitimate. Dare I say this? It was and remains a dysfunctinal entity, as other lands and peoples that have survived the humiliation and indignities of occupation. Having said this, I know where you are coming from; therefore habour no thoughts of condemnation. However,the Creator never purposed that his intelligent human creation should be subject to illegitimate and unjust rule by their own, foreign or not.

  May it go well with you.
• 

  LouBelle

  Layla - I am angrey!

  1. At the huge increase in crime and the fact that our government does nothing about it because it's a racial thing. One can't even report the colour of the person who is commiting the crime.

  2. I did not justify apartheid at all !!!!!!

  3. You seem not to understand that even though my skin is white - I AM NOT - I'M MIXED AND MY FAMILY SUFFERED UNDER APARTHEID, and is it okay now that apartheid it's in reverse and acceptable.

  3. If I may ask, why did your friend leave South Africa and for how long has she been in the USA?

  4. Do you know how many skilled people are leaving our shores every year because of the conditions we are living in. Many many thousands.

  5. non black = means Indian, Coloured, Whites - how come these three racial groups are trying exceptionally hard to right their past wrongs - millions of hectares been given back, billions of rands have been used to help our native blacks (your term) get on their feet with farming, education, housing, employment....anything and everthing, and it's still not enough.

  5. I totally agree with you that the treatment of the native blacks was horrendous - there is no justification for that, I do understand that there is bitterness and hate on their part now, but when it's so tangible , pallatable - My generation of indian, whites and coloureds had nothing to do with it - what more can we do to be forgiven for the sins of our forefathers? It's seems no matter what is done - it's just not good enough.

  6. Do unto others as you would have done unto you - so it's okay now that all those that are not of native black decent get ill treated? When does it stop?

  I'm writing from my viewpoint - how I've been treated and thus it would be biased. If a black person had to tell their story it would be from their perspectived and of course biased. The same for an indian and a coloured. Do you know that what the native black ultimately wants and has said " The indians must go back to india and the whites to europe " That is what they want.

  You see Layla - I live here, I deal with this everyday of my life. I and millions of south africans know what it's like to live in fear of our lives.

  I want my family and all south africans to have a safer tomorrow no matter what their skin colour. At the end of the day we all hurt, we all bleed but then we ALL HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER IN HARMONY.

  Peace.
• 

  quietlyleaving

  Lou Belle

  I'm mixed race too - its not easy being in the middle. Have you read Wide Sargossa Sea by Jean Rhys?
• 

  Layla33

  LouBelle,

  You are blaming the native blacks for everything, and you are doing nothing but attacking them. If you eradicate race from your anger!, then I would be more able to understand your point. All these silly racial categorizations do nothing but add to the divisiveness of your country. While you are supposedly not guilty of the sins of your forefathers, you obviously are well over 15 years of age, which means you actively lived in the era of apartheid, did you not? And I know for a fact that coloreds were not treated anywhere near as harshly as the blacks. I mean the way you are writing your response is as if this happened eons ago.

  And try as you may it is "I" and "we the non/blacks are doing so much for the blacks" that is problematic to me. It is "us" versus "them" and it is so glowing in your responses. To me, I don't see anything in your writing that does not even begin to walk away from that paradigi for a solution. You are not a black native african, am I correct? You are not writing in any way to even begin to understand them at all. You are writing a bunch of negative ATTACKS (let's make it really plain here) and that's it.

  I also have a problem with people like you that are actually doing the same exact thing that the rulers of Apartheid did to the rest of the world. You are attacking, degrading and making the native Africans out to the bad people. Well guess what! There are a lot of hard working educated black natives of South Africa that are NOT ANYTHING LIKE YOU ARE WRITING and they are just as disgusted by the attacks racially like are happening in that country. The reason I am writing is because I have south african friends that are black and they are native and if you do not know what that means, let me make it clear. These people are the indigenous people of that country. Everyone else migrated there from another place and did nothing but make the indigenous people life's hell.

  I am curious about what you are going to do about it! Since it reads like these black natives are such a problem, what's your solution, maybe a more justified racial apartheid! Is that the solution? Maybe separate schools so the coloreds and the whites won't be soiled by the blacks? Or maybe they should just piss in their food and show them whose boss!

  I am trying very hard to understand your point, but I have to tell you that are coming off as more than a little bit biased and prejudiced toward the natives blacks of that country. Can you even see it??

  And before you ask I have been to South Africa. Yes, seen it first hand. I know you are grossly exaggerating and telling half truths about apartheid in reverse. Who are the richest people in South Africa? Who owns all the business and has all the power? Let's be real clear. I appalud people like Oprah Winfrey that would even attempt to respond to the glowly descrepancies in education and the poverty levels in the black natives communities. Whites are rich on the backs of blacks, and now that is apartheid is over, they blame the blacks for their poverty. Which is downright silly to me. You put them there, you created the slave class, you killed them, imprisoned them without mercy and NOW, you want to extend to the rest of the world that it is totally in reverse? Hell, there are still most universities and schools where whites go and live in the very best, that black do not. And before you ask, I have taken money out of my pocket in support of educating the poor blacks of that country and I have also contributed to the Oprah Winfrey School for girls. I

  You are angry, I get that, but what I am really incensed about is that you are not only not telling the entire story, and your story is not totally accurate.
• 

  LouBelle

  quietlyleaving - I haven't read it but have made a note of it - it is difficult - and very few people actually understand.

  Layla - I'm telling it like it is ( the crime, the reversal, the fear). perhaps when you read" I and millions of South africans" you thought I meant white people - I'm talking about those that are sick and tired of this, including the millions of black people who are disgusted with the way things are going. All I'm saying is that there is this reverse of apartheid and because we have come from a history of it - we should be more aware of what it could lead too - surely the country and it's people should learn from it's mistakes.

  You know for a fact coloureds weren't treated as bad??? really?? from where do you gain this knowledge?? You think because you may have visited my country once or twice you know exactly what is going on - I seriously doubt it. Have you spoken to coloured or indians about it - because they will tell you something VERY different. I mentioned this to my 2 indian collegues - they suggested you do some more research on that.

  You are trying to turn this into something that it's not - I was expressing my concern about the hate there is still in my country because of racial issues.

  I don't even think you are truly reading my responses because I've said this for the 3rd time - MY FAMILY WAS AFFECTED BY APARTHEID. TO MAKE THAT CLEARER - I HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS THAT ARE NOT WHITE AND TRUST ME THEY WERE ABUSED UNDER THE APARTEHIED SYSTEM - THAT IS WHERE I GET MY KNOWLEDGE FROM - FIRST HAND. I was a whole 15 years old when Mandela was freed- I had black / coloured / indian friends from a young age (and obviously my family) So perhaps you could enlighten me by what you meant ?

  Yes a great number of rural black south africans are extremely poor and have terrible living conditions - their very government isn't doing much for them except lining their own back pockets - there are extremely rich black south africans - and they actually hold much of the power. Don't know if you have heard of the BE policy.

  Layla - I try reply to each of your comments as I do read them, but you aren't extending the same courtesy. I do try and help communities as best as I can - I could do more, we all could, that takes a lot more time and money.
• 

  Sad emo

  For you LouBelle:

  Layla I do think you are either trying to read more into LouBelle's comments than there actually is, or you are practising (very) selective reading techniques. I haven't noticed even a hint of prejudice in her posts. Whether you like it or not, what LouBelle has described IS happening - and no amount of donations from you or others to educate "those poor black folk" (how patronising!!) is gonna make a scrap of difference until hearts and attitudes change - all you'll get is well educated hate-filled thugs instead. Whether you like it or not, South Africa's infrastructure as it is now was built and maintained by the ruling white class - which would be better now that apartheid is gone? Tear it all down and start again from scratch, or to build upon what is already there in spite of HOW it came to be there?

  At the moment, it seems to be that some sections of the black community in South Africa would prefer to tear it all down and start again.

  Look what's happening in Zimbabwe, a once prosperous, self-sustaining nation (yes run by whites and built on the backs of blacks!) is now in a state of total collapse - they can't even feed themselves any more, let alone conduct business with the rest of the world - that's what happens when people decide they want "what's rightfully theirs" now, instead of coming and working alongside the white people who had established the infrastructure and learning with and from them. Would you really like to see the same thing happen in South Africa too Layla?

  Perhaps you'd like every single 'non-black' to leave sub-Saharan Africa and let the ancient tribes run it all once more? They can sort out their own differences amongst themselves then!

  Hint - Be careful how you answer that one!!
• 

  Mrs Smith

  I'm sorry that I missed this post earlier. Yes South Africa is beautiful and I use to love living here. ...... Things are changing and I'm running scared.

  I live in a decent neighbourhood and have both black and white neighbours. In the first two week of this year my house was burggled 3 times! I have bars on all doors and windows so they got in through the garage! I am sick of living in fear. I am worried daily about the safety of my kids.

  The govenment is so corrupt they are using money that could be used to help fight the crime in this country. Instead they use it on designer clothing and expensive overseas travel. It is sad to see how people both black and white are leaving because they see no future here. I have been trying to hang on hoping thing would get better. I think it's time for me to leave South Arica and make a future for my kids elsewhere.

  You cannot even leave a door open at night while you are home because armed men come in to rob you. This does not even appear in the local newspapers because it's so common. If you have been robbed friends and family will tell you that you are lucky not to have been killed. Every decent person this country knows to not fight for your belonging that you've worked damn hard to get. Just give these thugs what they want and maybe your life will be spared. I say maybe because it depends on the mood of the thief. They have broken into homes a killed parents in front of little children and killed children in front of their parents. This happens to black and white people

  Car hijackings are so common that they have put up signs at certain intersections warning motorist that it's a high hijacking section of the road! Do they police it?? NO they just warn you!

  The govenment is sending out a lound a clear message in South Africa. They are saying Cime does pay!!! This is a country that allows our children to get raped, murdered and abused with no repocations for these evil men! This is a county where people believe that if you don't have a job you can go and take whatever you want from anyone cause it's your right to.

  And before you ask I have been to South Africa. Yes, seen it first hand. I know you are grossly exaggerating and telling half truths about apartheid in reverse. Who are the richest people in South Africa? Who owns all the business and has all the power?

  You must have been here a VERY long time ago cause the answer to both your questions is that some of the richest people in SA are black and the black people have all the power. Business are been forced to take on black partners or they do not get govenment backing.

  There are still millions of people living under the poverty line but this could be dealt with if the government was not so corrupt.

  The problems in SA are no longer because of apartheid, they are because of lack of strong, fair leadership and corruption.
• 

  LouBelle

  Hi again Layla - I didn't read the one comment you made about pissing in their food - you are obviously referring to the recent saga that is getting huge amount of media coverage - I can tell you now everyone in South Africa is digusted about that!!!!!!!!!! I don't know how recent your news is but apparently the boys are now saying that they actually didn't piss in the soup, that it was water and you can supposedly see that in the clip ( I am only quoting from the Sunday Tribune newspapers )

  How about this piece of news which hasn't made headline or international news because it was native blacks (your term) degrading their own - 4 women who happend to be wearing miniskirts - were stripped naked and made to parade in front of leering / gesticulating men at the taxi rank and they were degraded and treated like dogs - but you see because there wasn't a colour thing - you don't hear about it overseas but if it was white men doing it to black women - the media would have a field day. Can you see what I'm trying to get at???? At the end of the day we are all equal - black and white and should be treated the same - but it still isn't like that. The media hype things up horribly - we all know that!!!!! (that being said as - I feel I have to really stop you from reading inbetween the lines and putting words in my mouth - What those 4 white boys did was terrible!! even if it was supposed to be a joke - there is no place for anything like that)

  I don't know where you get off saying that I would prefer whites not to be soiled by blacks - you really cannot be reading my posts - I am truly astounded by your comments.You seem to be saying a lot about me and my Country, but on what basis? Whooopee for Oprah - she created a great school - good for her and great for the select girls that go there - my dear that isn't even a drop in the ocean. You think because you donated a couple of dollars here and there that you have a the right to presume stuff about me? You think you've done your bit to help our poor blacks? We help our own thanks - and when I say that I don't make it a racial thing - we help anyone who needs it - a lot of us (those with a bit more money) help those (without). Don't read that us as being white and those being black because you've been doing that.

  Oh and my indian collegues are still expressing your total lack of understanding what they went through under apartheid, and as you said about your South Afican friend now living in the states - they are extremely offended.

  Mrs. Smith - my uncle was very fortunate to survive a hyjacking - they shot at him, fortunately he had the sense to duck as he pulled off. I live in a quiet block of flats and even I was burgled - thank goodness I wasn't home - My little home looks like Forte Knox now. I've had my car stolen. My mothers' home has been burgled twice - they had to upgrade their security. One has to be so vigilent these days! Where are you heading? States, U.K, Austrailia? (Austrailia for the weather!!!!!)

  Sad emo: hehehehe - that and deep breathing, while reciting some mantra. As a matter of fact there was a political party that said that south africa has become like Bangladesh and the Indians must all go back to india. The indians have bought such diversity to the world, the way of life, their spices, their knowledge, their spirituality and let's not forget the great humanatarian Mahat Magandi.

  The other sad thing is that there are people that are willing to help, that want to build homes for the underprivileged, that want to offer health care, but because they are honest and won't do the whole "kick back" to government - their tenders aren't considered. So much corruption.
• 

  Mrs Smith

  Loubelle, we would like to go to Oz. I feel sick just thinking that uprooting my family and leaving all my friends behind is the only option left.
• 

  R.Crusoe

  Peace seems an illusive notion for all sorts of inequalities that exist as realtime anyplace!

  The fight of the underpriveleged to overcome the privelaged is constant and with increasing human populations the fear of the healthy is that they give enough health to the suffering to empower them!

  Look at any underclass - none ever seem to stop at equality!

  This fact seems to be what keeps the powerful from giving too much help to them! And if an underclass gets power, many impose worse sufferings on others so ????????

  Who has the keys to a solution?