How do we know animals have always killed each other?

by inkling 29 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    It is downright stupid to assume that tigers will eat straw. You cannot properly chew grass with the sharp teeth found in those animals. Cats cannot chew grass and straw. And, they need nutrients that are not found in plant matter (though sometimes they do chew grass, albeit inefficiently, like we today take vitamin pills).

    It makes absolutely no sense to have those animals eating straw before the Flood (which I think was made up). Why did Jehovah waste the time to make animals eat each other if it was only going to be a temporary condition? I guess He is too busy creating problems where none needed to exist to answer any prayers aside the stock prayers that He has recorded in the Bible.

  • inkling
    inkling
    animals eating straw before the Flood (which I think was made up).

    Agreed, It does not seem at all clear that the bible says this.

    For that matter, The Bible doesn't actually even say animals lived in
    peace before Adam and eve sinned! Clearly god didn't have a problem with
    killing animals not to long after because he was happy with Abel's blood
    sacrifice.

    I think the whole vegetarian ecosystem comes entirely from the desire to
    interpret "lion shall eat straw like the bull" in a literal fashion.

    [inkling]

  • metatron
    metatron

    What is often missed in this is that some meat-eating predators go way back to the dinosaurs - or beyond.

    There are plenty of fossils of sharks and crocodiles. Did they eat carrots back then and change to carnivores?

    metatron

  • tak
    tak

    Questions

    FromReaders

    God

    warnedCainthat‘sinwascrouchingattheentranceandforhimwasitscraving,’whichseemstoalludetoawildbeastanditsprey.(Genesis4:7)WhywouldthatlanguagebeusedifbeforetheFlood,animalsateonlyvegetation?

    In the books written by Moses, we find a number of verses that reflect facts or historical developments that might seem strangely out of place in their historical setting.

    For example, the account at Genesis 2:10-14 gives geographical details about the garden of Eden. Moses wrote that one river was "the one going to the east of Assyria." But the land of Assyria derived its name from Asshur, Shem’s son born after the Flood. (Genesis 10:8-11, 22; Ezekiel 27:23; Micah 5:6) Evidently, in his accurate, inspired account, Moses simply used the term "Assyria" to refer to a region that was familiar to his readers.

    Consider another example from the early chapters of Genesis. After Adam and Eve sinned and were expelled from the garden, Jehovah prevented them from returning. How? Genesis 3:24 says: "He drove the man out and posted at the east of the garden of Eden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the way to the tree of life." Notice, "the flaming blade of a sword." Did God invent swords?

    We need not conclude that our loving Creator was the first one to make what we know as swords. Adam and Eve saw turning in front of the angels something that was blazing. What exactly was it? By the time Moses wrote the book of Genesis, swords were well-known and used in warfare. (Genesis 31:26; 34:26; 48:22; Exodus 5:21; 17:13) So Moses’ words "the flaming blade of a sword" enabled his readers to visualize to a degree what existed at the entrance of Eden. The information known in Moses’ day contributed to the understanding of such matters. And the language Moses employed must have been accurate, for Jehovah had it included in the Bible.—2 Timothy 3:16.

    Now what about Genesis 4:7? There God warned Cain: "If you turn to doing good, will there not be an exaltation? But if you do not turn to doing good, there is sin crouching at the entrance, and for you is its craving; and will you, for your part, get the mastery over it?" As noted, the language seems to portray the image of a hungry wild beast crouched to pounce on and devour prey.

    Nonetheless, evidence in the Bible points to Adam and Eve’s having been at peace with all animals. Some of the creatures may have been quite comfortable around humans, even benefiting from the nearness. Others were wild beasts, animals that naturally sought habitat away from humans. (Genesis 1:25, 30; 2:19) Yet, the Bible does not suggest that any of the animals preyed upon other animals or upon humans. Originally, God specifically assigned vegetation as the diet for both animals and humans. (Genesis 1:29, 30; 7:14-16) That did not change until after the Flood, as Genesis 9:2-5 indicates.

    What, then, of God’s warning to Cain, as we read at Genesis 4:7? Certainly the image of a savage beast crouched and ready to spring on prey would have been easily understood in Moses’ day, and we understand it too. So, again, Moses might have been using language adapted to readers familiar with the post-Flood world. And even if Cain had never seen such a creature, he would have been able to get the point of a warning that likened the sinful desire in him to a hungry, ravenous beast.

    The primary aspects that should have greater impact on us are these: God’s kindness in warning Cain, the value of humbly accepting counsel, how easily jealousy can corrupt one, and how seriously we should take other divine warnings that God put in the Scriptures for us.—Exodus 18:20; Ecclesiastes 12:12; Ezekiel 3:17-21; 1 Corinthians 10:11; Hebrews 12:11; James 1:14, 15; Jude 7, 11.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    My personal fave from the Cretaceous (140 million ago) the species depicted is the largest known from that epoch:

    alt

    I have personally seen this one at the Miami Museum:

    Pretty convincing. Darwin was so smart he evolved the ability to kick his own ass.

    alt

    alt

    Burn

  • marmot
    marmot

    Holy crap! I didn't realize they were still arguing this as recently as 1994!

    I thought this was a 1950s-era dogma that nobody really believed anymore except for the old-guard fundamentalists like my grandparents.

    This is some funny (yet tragic) stuff.

  • TD
    TD

    ...Actually herbivorous animals themselves cannot subsist on straw. (Although they will eat it.) There's a big difference between straw and hay.....

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    Additionally, there is plenty of evidence of dinosaur DISEASE.

    Check these out:

    Cancer:
    http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/ancient/AncientRepublish_975839.htm
    http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0704/0704.1912.pdf

    Osteoarthritis:
    http://discovermagazine.com/2006/sep/csijurassic/article_view?b_start:int=2&-C=

    University of Pittsburgh Medical Center's program of study in prehistoric (dinosaur) diseases:
    http://www.upmc.com/Communications/MediaRelations/Research/Articles/StudyFossils.htm

  • inkling
    inkling
    My personal fave from the Cretaceous

    Lol! That is so cool.

    '[ink]

  • gaiagirl
    gaiagirl

    If you examine marine fossils beginning in the early Paleozoic, roughly 600 million years ago, and follow them forward through time, you observe more and more armor plating on invertebrates and even some fish. There is only one reason any creature has armor plating, and that is as a defense against something trying to eat it. There was also a increase of obviously carnivorous fish such as sharks and Dunkleosteous (used to be called Dinicthys), so what you are observing is an "arms race" of sorts. Same thing happened during the time of dinosaurs, as more efficient predators evolved, more effective defensive armor evolved in response.

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