Here's some Reality for ya:
Its plain to see with our own eyes that sometimes there are things we cant explain..and..sometimes there are
KNOWING THE DIFFERENCE between what is real and what isn't.
by Terry 65 Replies latest jw experiences
-
-
fifi40
There are things we know about and understand; and there are things as humans we do not know about and as yet do not understand. This has been the way since the beginning of man's time.
This is in fact one of them; how man got here, we dont know.............so some choose to speculate and may invest more of their time speculating and may even believe their theory. Reality is at this point in time we do not have the answer.
Could this change; could we learn the answer of how man came to be one earth, yes.
If you are talking about a table being a table, or what type of wood it is made of then you can obtain the truth...........if you are talking about things that we do not have conclusive answers for then how can you present a truth or reality.
If someone personally experiences something then they can be convinced of it............just because we have not experienced it does not mean it is not reality.
If someone is convinced they talk to spirit beings you cannot prove this is not true, you can only say you have not had that experience........If someone says they have had some type of religious experience again you cannot disprove this, you can only compare it to your own experience.
You are right in that reality does no alter............things are as they are, regardless..........it is our perception of reality that can change with new information and becoming aware of things we were once ignorant of.
-
VoidEater
Still says: "We all thought the information age would make us smarter." Instead, we're just dumb faster. ;-)
The difficulty with skepticism is that it makes people uncomfortable. The mind wants to believe it knows everything and can predict everything. Most people cannot tolerate the unknown, it scares them. It's easier to believe in certainties, and many will latch on to any certainties and "eternal truths" with the flimsiest reasons.
Any time we attach meaning, we venture into fantasy. The irony here is that we travel through the land of skepticism (the unknown) to arrive at a conclusion (a belief about the meaning of a thing).
The world of (subjective) experience and meaning are not generally the world of physical phenomena as "reality". But they are part and parcel of the human experience, and without them I suspect we would not have developed the body of knowledge we now (think we) have. They certainly make life more interesting and provide for passion than the world of "mere" reality.
-
VoidEater
Terry says: "The table is what it is. I say it looks like mahogony. You say it looks like oak. Neither of our opinons changes the table one tiny bit!"
A Fair Witness (Stranger in a Strange Land by Heinlein) might say, "It appears to be wood on the side that I can see."
Many people cannot see beyond their mental model of what they think the "real world" is like. Instead of seeing the table in the room, they actually refer to a memory of what that end of the room looked like once upon a time. The table may not even be there any more, yet they will still "see" it.
It's hard to be present in this physical reality for some. It is preferrable to live in a mental model of what they hope the world is like.
-
quietlyleaving
"The table is what it is. I say it looks like mahogony. You say it looks like oak. Neither of our opinons changes the table one tiny bit!"
A table could be a stool
-
Terry
Many people cannot see beyond their mental model of what they think the "real world" is like. Instead of seeing the table in the room, they actually refer to a memory of what that end of the room looked like once upon a time. The table may not even be there any more, yet they will still "see" it.
It's hard to be present in this physical reality for some. It is preferrable to live in a mental model of what they hope the world is like.
Knowing the difference comes when we challenge ourselves with skeptical scrutiny of our pet beliefs.
Yet, few have the courage and integrity to listen to rebuttal. People tend to want to be right when they are wrong by only listening to and reading what agrees with their own point of view.
Jehovah's Witnesses are not only taught to exclude other viewpoints; they are threatened if they are open-minded in their reading materials.
Trying getting any JW to read any bible scholar's books, commentaries, dictionaries, concordances or histories and they will shrink in abject terror at the prospect.
What the average JW fails to understand is that the writing committee members use secular and religious texts from Christendom to prop up their own writings when it suits their fancy. Yet, they'll condemn those self-same people out of hand when it further serves their propaganda.
Knowing the difference between honest scholarship and propaganda becomes more and more difficult as you turn away from many sources and only consult one.
-
Terry
we are expected to buy hook, line, and sinker into everything "Science" tells us
Where did you get such a peculiar idea?
Do you find the Germ Theory of disease hard to believe?
Humanity died like flies until science clearly explained where disease was coming from and how to prevent its spread.
Do you find the innoculation programs which eliminated epidemics hard to believe? When I was a boy, kids my age were paralysed with Polio until the Salk vaccine became available thanks to science. The spread of malaria was staunched by the control of mosquito populations thanks to the spread of science. Does that sound too incredible for you?
Science has given us an understanding of the real world and enabled non-superstitious people to make vast advances in health and the life span of human beings has been extended far beyond what pre-scientific times would allow.
Science is knowledge backed by experiments, testing and proof when reveals fundamental realities for the betterment of man.
I think you are confused because of fringe stories released in the press frequently about funded studies and funded experiments by private corporations to produce this and that (cloning, radiated foods, miracle drugs, etc.)
Don't confuse what corporations without ethical control are willing to say and do with what science is about.
Sit down and make a list and prove it to yourself. What has religion, superstition and meditation done for mankind on one side of the page and what science has made possible on the other side.
Ideologues want to belittle man's base of knowledge so that they can control people out of fears.
Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization are all about instilling fears in people by decrying anything worthwhile the scientific community has produced to improve our situation. The Organization decries man's progress and self-betterment by a steady erosion of trust and confidence.
Don't fall for such a trap.
Science as a pure methodology for understanding the inner workings of the world around is does not offer to us a cause for BELIEF. No belief system is necessary. Science offers facts and results.
Most of what makes your life comfortable and healthy has come from science. Most of what you fear and worry about comes from ideologies intent on instilling doubt, worry and concern so that you will become dependant and submissive.
-
Terry
If someone personally experiences something then they can be convinced of it............just because we have not experienced it does not mean it is not reality.
If someone is convinced they talk to spirit beings you cannot prove this is not true, you can only say you have not had that experience........If someone says they have had some type of religious experience again you cannot disprove this, you can only compare it to your own experience.
Look, this is how it works.
The one making a claim sustains the burden of proof.
Simple.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
Don't confuse personal testimonies with proof. They are claims. They are assertions. They are hearsay.
Science deals with demonstrations of proof which can be duplicated by anybody anywhere using strict procedures.
That is the nature of the scientific method.
Religion and superstition are only possible because people do not understand the nature of the burden of proof.
If you pull some wild claim out of your intestinal tract and say it is true; only the gullible will shrug and say, "Umm, yeah--I guess so. Nobody can prove it ain't so."
That isn't how it works in the modern world. In the Dark Ages it was so. Not now.
We live in the age of the Internet where anything can be put out as True. But, intelligent and skeptical thinkers will not accept mere claims and assertions without proof. It would be self-defeating to do so.
Remember who has the BURDEN OF PROOF and you'll not go wrong.
-
Deputy Dog
Terry
What is the solution?
Skepticism.
Try it---it might save your life.
I'll try to remember this on my deathbed.
-
Terry
The world of (subjective) experience and meaning are not generally the world of physical phenomena as "reality". But they are part and parcel of the human experience, and without them I suspect we would not have developed the body of knowledge we now (think we) have. They certainly make life more interesting and provide for passion than the world of "mere" reality.
Everyday life is practical. We do something and it brings about a result. Viewing the impact of our belief system on our own life should provide a pretty good clue as to the veracity of our personal belief.
People who eat crap get fat. Proof that eating crap makes you fat is obvious.
People who drink, smoke and don't get enough sleep injure their health and destroy their appearance. Self-evident proof comes in just looking at these people who can't walk up a flight of stairs without exhaustion, who have deep lines around their mouth and eyes and who get colds and lose time at work all the time.
People who carry a rabbit's foot for luck will disregard all the misfortune that the average day heaps upon them and seize upon the occasional "lucky" event as "proof" their belief in a rabbit's foot works. They filter out what Karl Popper would call the "falsifiable" proof which tests their pet belief and renders it null.
You see, you can't make people think clearly. It requires self-motivation. It requires a fearless dedication to alertness and skepticism. It is far, far easier to rely on a belief system filled with fetishs, lucky charms, prayer and superstition.
What use to pass for wisdom in the old days has been tested over time and falsified or corroborated if we take the trouble to investigate fairly the objective information science has presented to us. If we don't like the truth about our pet belief; so be it. You cannot force any person to act in their own best interest.
Sad, but true.