Anyone have any thoughts about this?

Connaughty

Check out this movie trailer scene that supports creation.

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/playgroundvideo3.swf

I thought that it was interesting. What do you think about it.

LtCmd.Lore

Here's a version on youtube, in case the original link isn't working for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaULFAZMK1o

And the creationists made a parody of it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QfoOsbbJIA

Gopher

Lore, thanks for those links, but you have them mis-labelled.

HERE is the link to Stein's movie trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QfoOsbbJIA

and

HERE is the parody: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaULFAZMK1o

The movie doesn't support "creation". Stein's movie supports the teaching of "intelligent design", the newest flavor of the "creationism" movement. Creationism has lost favor in the courts here in America as a pseudo-science that was meant to introduce religious concepts into the school.

Scientific ideas are testable or falsifiable. The idea of God is neither of those, so clearly "intelligent design" does not belong in classrooms or in science. If people want to talk about belief in whatever deity, that belongs in churches, homes, and amongst friends. But belief systems and so-called "science" that supports those do not belong in publicly funded schools. Otherwise, the government gets involved in the business of supporting a religion, and choosing from among gods that people believe in (and there are thousands). Government needs to be religion-neutral, so that people can then choose to believe (or not believe) without the government recommending to them what they should believe.

Futher, in Stein's trailer, he says the discussion about ID would have been allowed during the time of Galileo or Einstein, but that we live in the time of Darwin. No we don't -- Einstein came after Darwin. Further, neither Galileo or Einstein hewed to the teachings of the dominant churches of their time. Galileo helped bring an end to the church-supported idea of geocentrism (the earth being the center of everything - which supposedly had a biblical basis). Einstein at most was a deist (one who believes in an impersonal creator), but much of his writings reject the idea of a supernatural being or god distinct from nature.

The ID people are losing the intellectual battle, as is shown by many Christian religionists even acknowledging that evolution is a valid science. This film is merely a backlash, and an attempt to portray the scientific community as persecutors.

Velvetann

Thanks for the post about this Connaughty.

I think it will make some people think but if a person has it in their mind that it just "happened" they aren't going to change their minds because they just don't want to. Just like I will never change my mind that there is absolutely a creator even if I don't know him and I can't see him. Maybe its the fact that it was instilled in me by my parents and growing up as a JW. I think its scarey to think it just happened because what if something goes wrong and there is no one to fix it. Its also scarey to think that a All powerful God made all this and that we must answer to him.

It seems once we get a mind set people have a hard time changing. I think its the same with the witnesses, they have a mind set and they won't change even though the facts are in front of them.

Why do you Connaughty think people don't want to believe in a creator???

Why do some of you who have been Jehovah's Witnesses now believe there is NO creator? That means you have changed your mind set.

I am simply curious.

Gopher

Velvetann,

Since you asked.... I'm a former JW who is currently a "weak" atheist. (Definitions -- A strong atheist asserts there is no god, or that belief in a god is dangerous, ignorant and/or foolish. A weak atheist simply doesn't see enough convincing evidence that there is a god, and doesn't take it much farther than that other than wanting to hold out for any evidence.)

After deciding never to go back to JW's, having had my eyes opened as to what they were really about (control), I felt the need to investigate everything I'd ever been taught about religion and spirituality.

After investigation I first lost my faith in religion itself. I decided no longer did I ever want any men or committee of "experts" to tell me what they thought about God and why. I still believed in a God at that point.

Then I read up on the evolution of species, and learned that there was a carefully constructed theory around evolution, contrary to what I had been taught in Watchtower-land. Evolution is as well-researched as other accepted scientific theories, such as general relativity or quantum mechanics.

Evolution has nothing at all to do with the question of "how life started". That question is not one that can be traced or observed, as the scientific theory of evolution can be. So as far as what or who got the ball rolling in terms of starting life, we cannot know for sure.

So then I considered how little God (if he exists) seems to be involved in earth and its affairs. There seems to be no reason for an all-powerful and all-loving Creator to allow the confusion and suffering that has been experienced for millenia. It seems that if he exists, he has left us alone and is off on some other project. I reject the notion that he's actively involved in earth's affairs, because some people who earnestly ask him for help get none while evil people claiming to represent him often get far ahead in this world.

Since God is absent from earth's affairs, and there is substantial evidence that earth's life forms did evolve rather than being specially created as claimed in the Western Bible, I have for now come to the weak atheist conclusion that there isn't enough evidence for a creator-god. However I am open to overwhelming evidence to the contrary, such that "belief" in a god would no longer be necessary but it would be a fact -- such as God making himself obviously evident through some form of modern communication channel. Even that would have to be viewed with some skepticism. However if God's existence became a fact rather than a belief, I would not reject the fact.

PrimateDave

I would be interested to watch the movie (as a free download, of course). I would also like to see a straightforward presentation of the evidence that these scientists have, which they interpret as an indication of intelligent design, without the whole "conspiracy theory" dramatics. That's right. Let each side state their case and present their evidence documentary style without the slick, Hollywood production. I can make up my own mind, thank you very much. Unfortunately, Mr. Stein lets us know right off the bat where he stands on the issue, and he uses loaded language to speak to his intended audience, Creationists.

Creationists, if there really is evidence of intelligent design in life on this planet(and that's a BIG "IF"), what makes you think it has anything to do with your personal beliefs. My family believes in a Creator and Intelligent Design. They believe Jehovah heard my grandmother's prayer and sent Witnesses to her door. Does that mean Jehovah is god and Jehovah's Witnesses are correct? A Muslim man I met yesterday whom I was able to help told me that it was a sign from god that we met by chance the way we did. Does that mean Allah is god and his chosen people are Islamic? My neighbor told me today that god heard his prayers and saved his life on a couple of occasions. Coincidences? Acts of a non-denominational, a-religious divine entity that intelligently designed the earth? Allah, Elohim, Yahweh, Jesus? The Great Spirit? By all mean, believe if you want, but please postpone the Inquisition for another century, okay?

Dave

choosing life

Might be interesting to watch. I do see design in nature that could not be mere random coincidence. I think the trailer is full of loaded language and persecution complex, however.

We could dance around the question of evolution/intelligent design forever. The hardest question to answer is the continued allowance of suffering by God.

What really matters about our beliefs is how do they make us behave. Are we more tolerant and caring people?

Velvetann

GOPHER I really enjoyed your explanation. My fiance believes much like you do, but he has never been a JW or any religion. He feels science is proved fact and that the creation of the bible belief is faith and not fact. I really am interested in others views on this. I haven't got time right now to go into detail but there was a few things you said I really appreciated and if you go into this thread again tomorrow I will comment on it. I just walked in the door and its Friday and have to spend some time with my fiance.

Thanks for taking the time to do that Gopher.

Hugs from Velvetann

Velvetann

Since God is absent from earth's affairs, and there is substantial evidence that earth's life forms did evolve rather than being specially created as claimed in the Western Bible, I have for now come to the weak atheist conclusion that there isn't enough evidence for a creator-god. However I am open to overwhelming evidence to the contrary, such that "belief" in a god would no longer be necessary but it would be a fact -- such as God making himself obviously evident through some form of modern communication channel. Even that would have to be viewed with some skepticism. However if God's existence became a fact rather than a belief, I would not reject the fact.

GOPHER

I have a few minutes more and its really on my mind now.....the above what you said. This is very good. I think you have a point!!!!!

Anyone have any thoughts about this?

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