by LouBelle 20 Replies latest jw friends
This is just something I've been thinking about. Jesus was their messiah, he died for the Jews back then and thus his "blood" doesn't automatically wipe out the sins of every human being. We've got to take responsibilities for the sins we commit - so in order for "saving" we should "die" to the flesh every day.
Thoughts?
When you really think about it, you begin to realise the concept of Jesus dying for anyone doesn't make a lot of sense. Sure, someone can sacrifice himself to save others, even all humanity (á la Bruce Willis in Armageddon) but the idea that someone's death can appease a bloodthirsty god and prevent him from killing or torturing people is just ludicrous. It's absurdity is heightened by the belief that the person who is sacrificed is also the deity to whom the sacrifice is made, and the notion that the death was only temporary anyway.
This is just something I've been thinking about. Jesus was their messiah, he died for the Jews back then and thus his "blood" doesn't automatically wipe out the sins of every human being.
Well, it isn't automatic, and from the writings we have extant, this is not how Jesus' early followers understood it.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
And also in Acts of the Apostles we have the baptism of non-Jews:
Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right. You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree, but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
We've got to take responsibilities for the sins we commit - so in order for "saving" we should "die" to the flesh every day.
This is a very Christian idea.
If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
The above implies action.
Burn
Burn - surely the whole world could be taken in the sense of what they defined as their world back then to be - the same as the flood - the whole world covered in a flood very unlikely but perhaps a certain part of the world **shrug**
I'm trying for it not to come across as christian - just the opposite (cos I'm not a christian)
I just think people should take responsibilities for the own actions and not keep "laying it at the foot of the cross" as christians tend to do.
I think I've been reading far too many emmet fox, geoff goldswain and those type authors.
Imo, the bible is jewish stories, by jews, for jews. The jesus story could have lifted them out of their exclusivist, us vss the gentiles mindset. Most jews rejected that part, though. Funny, how western gentiles just love that part. Different natures, i guess.
S
Burn - surely the whole world could be taken in the sense of what they defined as their world back then to be - the same as the flood - the whole world covered in a flood very unlikely but perhaps a certain part of the world **shrug**
The other text clearly shows this is not so, but that men from "every nation" are covered by Jesus in Christian teaching.
I just think people should take responsibilities for the own actions and not keep "laying it at the foot of the cross" as christians tend to do.
I don't know what flavor of Christianity you have been exposed to but "laying it at the foot of the cross" in no wise means we are not to take responsibility for our own actions. However, no matter how hard we try, none of us can ever have a perfect record. We all fall short.
Burn
LouBelle
Mat 28:18
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
I don't accept god ever wanted animals blood poured out for human errors!
Humans made the idea up!
I say we dont need that idea!
It is used by humans to attach all menner of rules and control to!
I say most of us have rules in our soul we should pay more notice of and rles in the souls of prophets whose wisdom helps us be peaceful, compassionate and who we are at our core!
I say the Bible and likely other self proclaimed 'all powerful' writings stops you doing exactly that and creates internal disharmony!!
My lifelong feelings!
Burn - but then how can we be perfect as our father is perfect? Surely christ just showed us that it CAN be done - he still suffered as a human. So if he could do it then surely we could???
The laying at the foot of the cross comment - to me it just makes christians have an excuse for their continued sinning. The elders use the "we're just imperfect & the light will get brighter" excuse.
R.Crusoe - it is a very barbaric practise, fits in perfectly with the pagans and wild tribes. One would think a "civilised " god wouldn't need such things.
D.Dog - ya - Jesus command his deciples - is it a command for us today? I mean surely god would just use his spirit?
Satanus - I may just be with you on this one.
I shall ponder more upon this topic.
LouBelle
Early Christians understood that Jesus came to save the world, not just the Jews. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." John 3:16,17
You may not agree with this Christian teaching. But it was clearly one that was and is held by Christians down through the centuries to the present time.
