Sometimes I don't know what to believe - that Jesus died for us then so that it equalled out Adam's sin (don't like to think like that though) or if we are all creators ourselves - if we ourselves create things in our life and we have to suffer the consequences or enjoy the outcome. Like Christ he did not have to die - he choose to - so he created it himself. So if we do not put our hope in Christ to save us then we ourselves have to create the outcome - we not perfect but by self realization we become more aware of where we are and thereby reach the point of perfection.
If Jesus existed perhaps he only died for the Jews back then
by LouBelle 20 Replies latest jw friends
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BurnTheShips
Burn - but then how can we be perfect as our father is perfect? Surely christ just showed us that it CAN be done - he still suffered as a human. So if he could do it then surely we could???
Matthew 5:48 is a command to strive to be perfect. To strive to be as our Father.
The laying at the foot of the cross comment - to me it just makes christians have an excuse for their continued sinning.
It does not make them have an excuse. They misuse it as an excuse to their own detriment.
Burn
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LouBelle
whoooooa mum - now that's taking another spin on it all together.
I mean if we were created in Gods image - we should then be creators too? or is the image more the ""personality"" traits - as we perceive them?
It shouldn't be up to Jesus to save me - I should save myself.
Three years ago who woulda thought I was in a apostolic church nodding along with the preachers there. Some may think I've strayed too far from the path with my independent thinking.
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LouBelle
Passage Matthew 5:48: 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Can perfection be gained?
James 3:2 (or 20)
We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check.Why do I need to go through christ - If I have faith in myself and keep my "whole body and mind in check" sure then I am my own saviour.
More thinking to be done over the weekend - have a good one people - I'm outta here in 5.
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BurnTheShips
Why do I need to go through christ - If I have faith in myself and keep my "whole body and mind in check" sure then I am my own saviour.
Can you? I can't, and I want to.
Can you save yourself?
Burn
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journey-on
LouBelle
If you're really interested in understanding the sacrifice of Christ and the deeper mystery meaning of it,
look into Christian Gnostic teachings. You'll find some interesting insight to ponder.
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Kinjiro
Who is to say we need 'saving' from a supernatural being or deity? It is amazing to see the circular references going round and round... what satanus said is right,, stories of a specific group of blood related people for that specific group of blood related people... but a couple of very slick and sly people did a hell of a job of marketing these ideas of ' i am not worthy.. i need a savior or i will go to hell.. and amazingly at this time and age, people still buy the stuff...
Have any of you read Desiderata?
Desiderata
Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs;
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love;
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment
it is as perennial as the grass.Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy.Now tell me if this advice doesnt make a whole lot more sense... Do you actually have to believe 'stories' about the god of the descendants of the so called Abraham of Ur in order to be happy? Do you have to sacrifice your children to a heartless deity that demands you dont use the science to save your child's life? Do you have to participate in ritualistic eatings of host and drinking of wine to be 'saved'? Do you really believe that kissing another man's beautiful ruby gold and diamond ring amounts to anything? As the poem says :
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy.Religon is part fo the scam.. please do not allow their black-out curtains to impede you view of this beautiful world...
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bobld
As I said on another post: John 3:16 anyone believing has everlasting life,That said.
1.So why does everyone die?Because the real Jesus' didn't die for mankind.
2.The Jews are still waiting for the Messiah because of 1 above.
3.The R.C. church has it right everyone has everlasting life but it's in heaven or hell.
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Satanus
If you realize who/what you are, you don't need someone else to die for you, to save you, or to give you everlasting life. You already have/are that. In god's image, indeed.
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jaguarbass
Maybe the bible only made sense to the Jews back then because it doesnt make sense today.
It's like were on our own here.