by cognac 47 Replies latest jw friends
I hear it a lot on this board that the 607 date is wrong... I figured that out while I was a JW... Never really thought much about it though. Just thought, ok, if it's wrong then everything is moved up about 20 or so years...
And for that matter, why is it such a big deal to the society? Why can't they just fix the date so it's right. Why do they need to hold on to that so bad???
I guess it's something I just really don't get, can somebody explain it to me???
The WTS ties in the date 1914 with the 1919 where they say that God and Jesus selected the WTS as the FDS.
*** w70 8/1 p. 462 par. 1 None Like Jehovah in All the Earth ***CHRIST JESUS, on the throne of Kingdom power since 1914 C.E., has, since 1919 particularly, directed his anointed followers on earth to proclaim the "good news" of the established Kingdom to all nations
*** w67 4/1 p. 214 par. 9 God’s Judgment Makes Manifest the Truly Rich ***Looking at the facts, we find further evidence of the need to consider properly the time factor. Though 1914 marked the birth of the Kingdom, it was not until 1919 that the "Lazarus" class fully experienced their changed condition. (Rev. 12:5) What happened? During World War I the clergy of Christendom were permitted by God to oppress and drive Jehovah’s dedicated servants of the "Lazarus" class into a tight corner of inactivity. As a class, it seemed they were finished and, symbolically, their lifeless corpses were exposed "on the broad way of the great city," Babylon the Great. Their enemies ‘rejoiced over them.’ Then, under God’s directive decree, a sudden reversal occurred. The "spirit of life from God" restored them to activity, and "they heard a loud voice out of heaven say to them: ‘Come on up here’ . . . and their enemies beheld them." That is exactly what happened in 1919 to Jehovah’s witnesses who were restored to his favor and exalted service in the interest of his kingdom in the eyes of all, including their enemies of the "rich man" class.—Rev. 11:7-12.
*** sl chap. 8 p. 134 par. 11 A Spiritual Paradise on a Polluted Earth ***Society it has been Scripturally proved that the "presence of our Lord Jesus Christ" began at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914, when God’s Messianic kingdom was brought to birth in the invisible heavens. (Revelation 12:1-10) At that time the newly enthroned Jesus Christ became like God’s ancient anointed "servant," Cyrus the Great, the conqueror of imperial Babylon and the liberator of the captive Jews and their loyal non-Jewish companions. Acting that part in modern style, Jesus Christ liberated the anointed remnant of his faithful followers who had been taken captive by Babylon the Great and her worldly paramours during World War I of 1914-1918 C.E. Breaking the power of that world empire of false religion, he brought about the restoration of the remnant of spiritual Israelites in the year 1919 C.E. This astonished and chagrined the entire religious world of that time.—Revelation 11:7-13.
*** re chap. 27 p. 184 pars. 25-26 God’s Kingdom Is Born! ***
25
In the wilderness, Jehovah brought forth the Israelites as a nation, providing for them spiritually and physically. Similarly, starting in 1919, Jehovah brought forth the seed of the woman as a spiritual nation. This is not to be confused with the Messianic Kingdom that has been ruling from the heavens since 1914. Rather, this new nation is made up of the remnant of anointed witnesses on earth, who were brought into a glorious spiritual estate in 1919. Being provided now with "their measure of food supplies at the proper time," these were strengthened for the work that lay ahead.—Luke 12:42; Isaiah 66:8.26
How long did this respite for the seed of God’s woman last? Revelation 12:6 says 1,260 days. Revelation 12:14 calls the period a time, times, and half a time; in other words, three and a half times. In fact, both expressions stand for three and a half years, extending in the Northern Hemisphere from the spring of 1919 to the autumn of 1922. This was a period of refreshing recuperation and reorganization for the restored John class.
I guess it's something I just really don't get, can somebody explain it to me???
If 1914 is wrong, then 1918 is wrong too. JW's believe that Christ "came" to the temple in 1918 and inspected all organizations claiming to be Christian and found only the Bible Students dispensing the "Truth."
JW's believe that it was at that point that the "Faithful and discreet slave" (AKA the Bible Student leaders) was rewarded by being placed over all of the master's belongings. The leadership of the JW religion has based their claim of spiritual authority on that premise ever since.
To change 1918 at this point would be to "jerk the rug out from under them" as it were, because it would mean that they weren't really appointed over all the master's belongings 1918 after all. That's not something you can casually be mistaken about....
***
w043/1p.16par.15‘TheFaithfulSlave’PassestheTest!***The parable continues: "After a long time the master of those slaves came and settled accounts with them." (Matthew 25:19) In 1914—certainly a long time after 33 C.E.—Christ Jesus began his royal presence. Three and a half years later, in 1918, he came to God’s spiritual temple and fulfilled Peter’s words: "It is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God." (1 Peter 4:17; Malachi 3:1) It was time to settle accounts.
16
What had the slaves, Jesus’ anointed brothers, done with the King’s "talents"? From 33 C.E. onward, including the years leading up to 1914, many had been working hard at Jesus’ "business." (Matthew 25:16) Even during the first world war, they had shown a strong desire to serve the Master. Now it was fitting to give faithful ones new opportunities to ‘do business.’ The time of the end of this system of things had arrived. The good news had to be preached worldwide. "The harvest of the earth" had to be reaped. (Revelation 14:6, 7, 14-16) The final members of the wheat class had to be located and "a great crowd" of other sheep gathered in.—Revelation 7:9; Matthew 13:24-30.
17
Harvesttime is a joyful time. (Psalm 126:6) It is fitting, then, that when in 1919, Jesus entrusted his faithful anointed brothers with increased responsibility, he said: "You were faithful over a few things. I will appoint you over many things. Enterintothejoyofyourmaster." (Matthew 25:21, 23) Moreover, the joy of the Master as newly enthroned King of God’s Kingdom surpasses our imagination. (Psalm 45:1, 2, 6, 7) The faithful slave class share that joy by representing the King and increasing his interests on earth. (2 Corinthians 5:20) Their delight is seen in the prophetic words of Isaiah 61:10: "Without fail I shall exult in Jehovah. My soul will be joyful in my God. For he has clothed me with the garments of salvation."*** w94 8/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
Let us first look at Revelation 11:2, the end of which mentions "forty-two months." We continue in verse 3: "I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days dressed in sackcloth." When does that apply?
Well, Jehovah’s Witnesses have long recognized that this prophecy found its fulfillment with spirit-anointed Christians after the end of "the appointed times of the nations" (the Gentile Times) in 1914. (Luke 21:24; 2 Corinthians 1:21, 22) Commenting on this, Revelation—Its Grand Climax At Hand! (1988) says on page 164: "There was a marked period of three and a half years when the hard experiences of God’s people matched the events prophesied here—starting from the outbreak of the first world war in the latter part of 1914 and continuing to the early part of 1918."
Note that the dating offered was "the outbreak of the first world war in the latter part of 1914 [till] the early part of 1918." This matches the dating often presented, such as in "Then Is Finished the Mystery of God," pages 261-4, (1969).
However, The Watchtower focused on prophecies in Daniel, a book that twice mentions a period comparable to that mentioned later in Revelation—3 1/2 years, or 42 months. To be specific, Daniel 7:25 says that God’s holy ones would be harassed "for a time, and times and half a time," or 3 1/2 times. Later, Daniel 12:7 foretells "an appointed time, appointed times and a half," or 3 1/2 times, that would be climaxed with "a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people."
So we have prophecies dealing with a comparable period at Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, and Revelation 11:2, 3, as well as at Revelation 13:5. Our publications have shown that all of these found fulfillment in the 1914-18 period. But in treating each of these prophecies separately, the dates for the beginning and for the end varied a little.
However, The Watchtower of November 1, 1993, asked: "How were all these parallel prophecies fulfilled?" Yes, the prophecies of 3 1/2 times mentioned at Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, and Revelation 11:3 were recognized as "parallel prophecies." Hence, they would correspond as to their beginning and their end.
As to the ending, the magazine showed how the harassment of God’s anointed ones (Daniel 7:25) climaxed in June 1918 when J. F. Rutherford and other directors of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society were "sentenced on false charges to a long term in prison." That event certainly was "a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people," as noted at Daniel 12:7.
Counting back from June 1918 leads us to December 1914 for the beginning of the 3 1/2 times. In that closing month of 1914, God’s anointed ones on earth learned the theme scripture for the coming year: "‘Are ye able to drink of My cup?’—Matthew 20:20-23." The article announcing it warned: "Who knows but that there may be some special trial, cup of suffering or ignominy, for the loyal followers of the Lamb during 1915!" As Daniel 7:25 foretold for this period of 3 1/2 times, ‘harassment arose and continued against the holy ones themselves of the Supreme One.’ Nations were embroiled in World War I, making it easier for them to carry out unjustified harassment. The conclusion is: All three parallel prophecies—Daniel 7:25, 12:7, and Revelation 11:3—found fulfillment in the 3 1/2 years, or 42 months, from December 1914 to June 1918.
cognac....
We're talkin' about "God's Mouthpiece"...the food that is given to the spiritually starved masses by the "appointed" channel of communication from heaven. Either God is one big ol' dumb-ass that can't get his facts straight or we have an organization founded, based and promulgating LIES...i.e. making it up as they go along and calling it "TRUTH." In other words...Would you buy a used car from this group of hallucinating old men?
-BONEZZ
Either God is one big ol' dumb-ass that can't get his facts straight or we have an organization founded, based and promulgating LIES
You should read Don Cameron's Captives of a Concept. It really does explain this whole thing very clearly.
I know! I know!! Pick me!!
Because without that date, and all the dates related to it (1918 for one, when they were picked by Jesus) they are not the FDS. Power reduced, everything's a lie, no more money. That date is too closely related to their identity which they gave themselves.
Kapeesh?
Here is another point:
1914 is the one date that they can claim (dishonestly) that they actually got right in advance. They can say, "We predicted the end of the Gentile Times in 1914" and then claim that the world war that began in that year fulfilled this expectation. If you take away that sole "success", then the Society can't claim a track record at all. In fact, it creates further problems because they need a date to start the fulfillment of the "composite sign" of Matthew 24, and in the wake of 1914 there was war, famine, pestilence, etc. If you get rid of 1914, the "composite sign" suffers. How can one claim that 1934 brought such a big change that it could be called a "sign" when all this stuff happened just 20 years earlier?
If Jesus is giving them the unique communication they claim - to be the appointed slave of cosmic divinity - then are any mistakes plausible which don't question that claim?
That claim is why humans are so intoxicated with them!
