The court rulings against WTS will force what changes?

by OnTheWayOut 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  OnTheWayOut

  The California rulings on clergy-client privilege have revealed the problems with
  WT procedure. They report to Headquarters. They don't have a free confession
  from their members in a judicial committee, but have an investigation in order to
  deal out punishment. They don't keep confidentiality on their part, so cannot
  ask for it in the courtroom. Feel free to point out other problems I didn't mention.

  So what is WTS going to do? What changes will the lawyers make?

  I suggested that they will stop calling a committee of 2 by the name, "Investigative Committee."
  I suggested that they will insist that elders follow standard procedures that are known
  instead of calling Headquarters for instruction- insisting that they never pass on names or
  details. I say that they will look for ways around court rulings instead of appreciating that
  the courts are protecting victims because WTS has let them down.

  What do you say about WTS changes because of the precident-setting cases?
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Even the announcement, "Brother Smith has been reproved" is a public
  admission that Brother Smith did something wrong. Will that be changed
  in pedophile cases? Instead of warning the cong., will they dig in deeper to
  protecting the corporation?
• 

  wha happened?

  contact from the BOE to the legal dept will never end. However the procedures for a committee and the terminology will change dramatically. Regardless of what was printed beforehand as to how biblically correct the current procedures are for a "investigative committee" are, new light will occur and thus ends another chapter in JW history.
• 

  dawg

  OTWO, good to see you man... I think this is a death knell for the JW religion in as far as the pedophile cases go... here's why? I think, if I'm not mistaken,that a committee has to be more than one person according to Bible standards. That means there can't be clergy client privileges, as there's not just a clergy and a client. More than one present means it isn't in confidentiality and changing the rules goes against the Bible.
  
  I'm certain they'll stop sending information to headquarters, and some Elders may be individually sued for this reason; that'll make the Elders step to the plate for the victims as they error on the side of caution-fear of being sued.
  
  Some day, I think this will all lead to a standard being set for all clergy to be considered clergy... they'll have to pass some courses in psychology and the like. I mean, half the freaking Elders are plumbers and the like, they don't know squat about molestation and how to deal with it. That's what I see.
• 

  dinah

  I thought this was an interesting article. WT lawyers argue in court that elders do not have a fiduciary relationship with Witnesses.

  So which is it? Clergy privledge or zero responsibility?

  This is from e-watchman, but it's still a good article.

  http://e-watchman.com/commentaries/do-watchtower-elders-have-a-fiduciary-responsibility.html
• 

  wha happened?

  That argument was presented in a case in TX. It's also cited in Barbara Anderson's CD with court transcripts. When I read that argument it initially angered me as it obviously goes against everything in their literature as to what the role of an elder is, but it also made me feel correct in my assumption that JW's are just another religion. Although it's part of court record, the AVG JW will deny it's true.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Great article, Dinah.

  So in court, JW lawyers argue that the elders have no responsibility to live up to a trust
  that the congregation gives them. While that happens, the congregation continues to be
  told to put all their trust in the organization and it's local representatives, the elders.

  Could I get ahead of myself with wild speculations and say that the judicial committee will
  be eventually abandoned? Imagine the outcome of such beginnings. WTS might realize
  that lawsuits will overwhelm them unless they stop having "committees."

  Elders might yell "Halt" whenever a member tries to tell them of wrongdoing. "We can't
  know this information- STOP!"
• 

  cognac

  So let me see if I got this correct...

  1. They call headquarters to speak to the legal dept regarding the issues - they would probably have to d'f the person cause if this get's public, JWs can say he is no longer a JW.

  2. When they do d'f the person, Bethel get's the info again on those d'f cards...

  So, even if they call Bethel and don't reveal any names, they will find out anyways with the d'f cards...

  When do you think the time will come that Bethel has to pass over all the info they have regarding the pedophiles???
• 

  WTWizard

  I hope it means they are going to have to start paying out serious money, and get more exposure on the news. Hopefully, judges in other types of cases involving the Watchtower Society and in other matters will see them as snakes when it comes to protecting pedophiles. And I hope it makes it that much harder for them to do what they really want--which is to control ownership of everything on the planet, which would effectively enslave us all to them. Let that happen, and we will have an issue that will make the pedophile scandals look like penny ante items.

  More damage to their reputation means extra work for them to start the Second Dark Ages that they want.
• 

  hillbilly

  The WT's defining all as "ministers' will go away after this. Draft status as ministers was already shaky.

  I wondered how long it would take someone to challence "clergy" status of Elders on a legal basis. I hope we try this issue in several other states with similar outcomes.

  The WTBTS (or whatever they are for this hearing) takes this issue to the Supreme Court.. I bet they will.

  ~Hill