elders testify (page 3)

Dagney

Hi ya Tink! That is a good point about remembering details about sex, rarely one forgets that.

Good ol' Murrietta...

Since I live nearby, I went to the trial Thursday morning. I got there about one half hour before the trial started and stayed through the elders' testimony. One thing that interested me was the attitude of Elder (or should I say former elder) Vaughn. Prior to the trial beginning, he sat in the hallway with his attorney fretting over what might happen to him if he refused to testify. Then when defendant Simental showed up, Vaughn greeted him warmly. Good to see that brotherly affection. At nine o'clock I noticed that the jury was still outside while the defense attorney and the elders' lawyers were going into court. I asked the DA if I could go in as well and he said that his was okay as it was an open trial. With the jury still outside Elder Sinay was sworn in. He read his statement of protest against having to testify. Interestingly among other things he denied moving Simental to another congregation after the molestation. After his statement the defense attorney told the judge that he objected to the elders having to testify. The judge noted the objection. Then the two elders signed the immunity agreement. After this the judge told the two elders' lawyers that they could leave the court. Then there was a discussion between the judge, prosecutor and defense attorney over the issue of whether the jury would be told about the elders' attempts to avoid testifying. It was agreed that the jury would not be told about this. It was also stipulated that the jury would not be told about the nature of the judicial punishment Simental received from the congregation. This was regarded by the judge as irrelevant. Then the jury came in. Sinay had a great deal of difficulty remembering things. He said that Simental admitted to touching the girls, but could not for the life of him remember where Simental touched the girls. He thought it was on the thigh or perhaps the ankle. He denied having any notes, recordings or record of what was said. One would have gotten the impression that Simental did nothing wrong from just listening to Sinay's testimony. My impression of Sinay was that he was a true "company man" who was following orders from the legal department. Former elder Vaughn was sworn next. He was very nervous. His nervousness caused him to also have memory problems. Among the things he couldn't remember were the names of all the elders in the Mountain View Congregation which he served in during 2006. He also could only remember one of the girl's names. So much for an elder knowing his flock. He did state that he was sure that Sinay touched each of the two girls in the vaginal area. The defense attorney on cross attempted to impeach his memory by pointing out the things he failed to remember (as I stated above). The defense attorney handled him well. Neither elder contributed much to the prosecution case in my opinion. During break I introduced myself to Tammy McCoy, the Press-Enterprise reporter. We discussed the issue of priest-penitent confidentiality and she agreed that it did not apply in this case. I told her that I was suspicious of the elders' faulty memories. She said that Vaughn was clearly nervous. I pointed out to her that it was quite impossible for me to believe that he had forgotten the names of some of the elders he served with only a year and a half ago. I thanked her for her articles and told her that people in many places were reading them. She thanked me and said she had been getting emails from "all over." At that point I had to leave. Time permitting I may go back next week for more.

RebelWife

He found her to have the covers pulled down and he went to cover her up. Apparently temptation struck at that moment

The way this is worded, it almost sounds like she pulled the covers down on purpose to tempt him, not because she may not have wanted covers in July in California. Makes him sound like the victim here. Pardon me while I throw up. I don't remember who said it, but I'm also wondering if the prosecutor knows about theocratic warfare. Don't they always take notes at JCs? If there are no notes, what happened to them? And what about the stuff that gets sent to headquarters? I'm hoping they know to pursue that line.

nomoreguilt

I for ONE, sent Tammy McCoy an email. I did that as soon as the original story she wrote broke here. I am quite sure that by now she has a wide education on jw's and pedophiles. More power to her..

NMG

oneairhead

Everyone needs to remeber that in theocratic warefare it is ok to lie. That is the mantra of the borg. So these guys can remember very clearly when a person says they touched a child. I would because I hate pedophiles.

One

OnTheWayOut

Among the things he couldn't remember were the names of all the elders in the Mountain View Congregation which he served in during 2006. He also could only remember one of the girl's names.

This sounds like lawyer preparation to me. He didn't lie. He was probably told what to do in order to
"forget;." Things like focusing on something else up until the moment of the trial, perhaps running
names of sports teams or high school teachers through his head.

Besides theocratic warfare, there is legal speak. If you cannot recall "exact" words and your notes
are long gone, then you can have a fuzzy memory. "You don't recall if he said 'inner thigh' or 'between the
legs,' do you? Then say you don't remember what he admitted to."

Wasanelder Once

All the two jerks had to do was look at the little envelope in the congregation records and it would have a not with the details, although I seem to remember something about all those records being destroyed or removed. Anyway, its rather Ollie North of them, don't you think? Convenient memories for sure. W.Once

SirNose586

If they can't remember clearly, what about the notes they take during judicial meetings?
I've got a hunch they were "lost" or "misplaced" or "accidentally shredded" or "mistakenly doused with kerosene and somehow burned" as soon as the subpoenas came.

Ain't that the truth. "Not covering up child molestation" my ass.

Hope4Others

Then there was a discussion between the judge, prosecutor and defense attorney over the issue of whether the jury would be told about the elders' attempts to avoid testifying. It was agreed that the jury would not be told about this. It was also stipulated that the jury would not be told about the nature of the judicial punishment Simental received from the congregation.

I don't no, but I think these comments are pretty important.

hope4others

flipper

This whole testimony from these jerk-off elders just makes me want to puke. Sends chills up my spine.

First off I agree with HOPE 4 OTHERS that the jury should be informed " about the elders attempts to avoid testifying . " And about the , " nature of the judicial punishment Simental received from the congregation." I think these are very important pieces of information the jury should be allowed access to !

When the elder named Sinay testified that, " He ( Simental ) found her to have the covers pulled down and he went to cover her up. Apparently temptation struck at that moment and that's when he touched her. " It really does sound like Sinay is sticking up for Simental here. What temptation was he talking about ?? We are talking about a 9 or 10 year old girl here ! There should be no #ucking temptation ! The stupid elder makes it sound like just the fact the girl was laying there made it difficult for this pervert Simental ! And when Sinay stated about Simental's emotional demeanor, " It was extremely difficult for him. " And that he cried ? Who gives a raging horses a$$ if he cried or it was hard for him ?? What about the girl who got molested ?? What about her emotional demeanor afterwards ?

Jesus Christ , I swear to God - I had to drink a glass of wine just to calm me down writing this , but if I had been in the courtroom watching this - they would have had to make me leave for yelling obscenities at the Sinay elder ! And to think these a$$wipe elders - who by the way I wouldn't even mop my floor with - were given immunity if they testified ? What the hell was that all about ? The Watchtower attorney pulling strings again ? I hope this pedophile gets nailed good, and nailed again from some big guy in prison constantly ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

elders testify