I can feel you...my daughter got married and they told me that I'm not allowed to attend at the wedding reception, sice I was disfellowshiped. The WT it is so unhuman cult...
God dammit!!! I hate this cult!
by bluesbreaker59 67 Replies latest jw friends
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Tired of the Hypocrisy
BB59, I am so sorry to hear that you are being treated like this. This is a mean spirited cult and it is sad that your dad is probably doing it to look theocratic. I think you should send him an invite anyways. If he does not come, he is the one losing here. About the threat to not let them see the kids if they do not attend.....Pass on that one. Grandparents are a source of love & can be a blessing for your kids. What I mean is don't behave like them.
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LouBelle
BluesBreaker - only you know what will make you happiest! Invite your dad because you want too. Do everything that you planned and choose to enjoy your day no matter what. If your dad doesn't come, you've got time to make your peace with it (whether you like it or not) Your mom will be there to support you and perhaps some other family memembers from the cult.
Don't let something like this rob you of your joy!!
It's awesome you've found someone to love and who love you back - all the best friend.
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cab1000
My parents did not come to my wedding. I was DF too. (In fact, the reason for the marriage was to get re-instated)(how silly)
Do try your hardest to look at this coin on both sides. (I know its diffiCULT, and there is really no excuse for his behavior.)
Years after our wedding, we was watching the video of our wedding with my mom (who did not attend-same reasons as your dad), and she was in tears. (Mom was not a crier, she could hide her emotions on about everything.)
The point I am trying to make is that He Really wants to be there too! He just has his blinders on, and they are not coming off. Try to empathize with him before "bashing" him at the wedding. I am quite sure that if he wasn't brainwashed into thinking that its a matter of paradise, or not if he attends, he would be there. I see no reason to make any announcements, or put anything on the invitation. The way it worked for us was nothing at all. Either everyone knew already, or the talk went on behind our backs, either way, there was no talk (to me) of my parents decision to miss our wedding. We had a lovely time without them.
Good Luck and Congrats on your new Union...
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BEROEAN
BluesBreaker,
Wow! Why the hostility bro?
I never implied that you were any of those things. I merely asked why did YOU get disfellowshipped. You said it yourself, the Elders sat quiet while you slammed your fist on the table and used your GROWN UP voice while pointing your finger at them. Sounds kind of vile for someone that just wanted to fade away. For being so smart, you really had no clue on how to fade away.
I will tell everyone on this board the best way to fade away is to just stop going to meetings and never meet with the BOE. Contrary to Forum beliefs, Edlers are not roaming around seeking to DF someone. Do you really think we want to play phone tag, set up judicial meetings on non-meeting nights, sit in a room for hours, type up letters, and lose a servant of Jehovah? Let me say it yet again, Elders do not disfellowship publishers, publishers disfellowship themselves. I will guarantee you Blue, if instead of displaying your GROWN UP aggressive attitude, you basically told them your ex-wife, who cheated on you, hurt you and like most men you have a desire for female companionship and the opportunity presented itself, the Elders on the committee would have probably given you private restrictions and left it at that. Which, in turn, you could have faded and still have access to your family. There's so many "victims" who want vengeance because of what someone else did to them and the most obvious people to blame are the Elders. Many times the "victims" feel the Elders should have executed vengeance on their behalf and when it doesn't happen the "victims" let the Elders have it. There's a similar case in which the husband has been accused of adultery by his wife. However, while she was at work, he packed up all of his things, moved away, and left no forwarding address. Should the Elders just take the word of one witness? What if she was the wrongdoer and the best way for him to cope with it is by simply leaving? Several failed attempts contacting the brother. Relatives don't want to get involved. The wife grows increasingly angry. But, somehow, this will all end up being the BOE fault.
I'm sorry to hear about your personal experience as a child. But, can you really say your father was more a negative influence in your life than a positive one? I understand how older generations were and the "strict" adherence to "procedure" was the law of the land. But, that seems to be more the case with 2nd and 3rd generation dubs. That attitude is very rare with those not raised in the truth. If any readers on this board ever want to talk to an Elder seek out one that grew up in the world before he was exposed to the truth. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the difference.
Finally, I think the previous paragraph answers your question of why i'm on this board. I'm not lonely, quite successful, wife that's a hot piece of arse, and always testing and proving. You accuse me of picking on people to make myself feel better. Not in the slightest. I get no pleasure in smearing others. However, isn't that what the majority of ex-dubs on this board do? How many times are the thoughts all dubs are robots, all dubs are stoopid, all dubs aren't successful, all dubs have boring sex, all dubs beat their wives, dubs dubs dubs dubs blah blah blah crap? It's funny how those growing up in the truth find comfort in Christendom. The same Christendom some of us became deeply disturbed at because of the glaring hypocrisy and false teachings. Perhaps in both cases the grass is always greener........
Maybe it's Leafism.
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bluesbreaker59
Beroean,
Read this all slowly, so you understand it, ok? Not explaining this again...
Again, I ask you, what did Jesus teach? He taught about love being the greatest commandments, this is indisputable. Why are you on a board of ex JW's? You're not "even to have a meal with such a man", according to "mother". Why did you choose to come on a thread about my future wedding, and take a crap on it? Perhaps you'd like to meet with me in person and do that? You're not far from me, I'd be happy to meet you...
My point about meeting with the elders is simple. I met with one group at my old hall, for MY EX WIFE'S committee... That was where all the back room yelling took place. The PO, or "head janitor" as I like to call him, he was a piece of work, he worked part time driving school buses, and couldn't provide even basics for his family, I believe the Bible has some counsel on that too... He sat back there and yelled at the top of his lungs, even SWEARING at one point at me (Damn was the word of choice). Telling me how I HAD TO take my ex back after she'd been seen staying WEEKENDS at a worldly man's house. He kept rattling on about the evidence not being conclusive, and how she denied having relations with this man. Trying to counsel me from the scriptures. Finally it was MY TURN to speak, I spoke my mind, showed them my research, gave them the names of all my witnesses that saw this behavior of my ex, etc. He tried not to look at my research from the publications, so I pointed at the papers, and I got louder, and slammed my hands around a bit to get his attention. I'll tell ya if I see him on my street in service, he's in for trouble, probably turn the garden hose on him, so he can feel "persecuted".
THEN, I moved halls, after waiting another 6 months on the original committee to do something. I started going to my family's hall, and did that for a year and a half. I stopped attending in November 2006. That same time I started looking for women and dating. I got in trouble for sex, got private reproof, because I WENT TO THEM!!! I felt guilty about this. That FREE-ED me according to their asenine standards. I then took a trip out of state to visit my mother, I decided while I was down there that I didn't want that life for me or my future children. So I decided that I'd never return to the CULT when I got back to Iowa. Then I continued the relationship I was in, and my EX-wife, found out because she ILLEGALLY got into my old email account. So by illegal means, I was brought up on charges. I didn't avoid the elders, or play games, I answered their calls, and told them I'd just write a letter, because I don't want to meet with them.
Got it? Good...
My father I love deeply, but there needs to be some mutual respect of decisions in life. I don't beg him to leave the JW's, like he begs me to return. I don't tell him to celebrate holidays, like he says not to. I don't bug people in door to door ministry, when they'd rather sleep. I'd love to hang out with him again, because our relationship was NEVER, EVER, EVER based on religion. It was based on love between a father and a son. He never talked to me about JW stuff when I was growing up, never studied with me, never pushed service. My grandma (who lived with us), constantly was harping on me to get baptized, and so my dad and stepmom, gave me an ultimatum about baptism, either do it now, or we'll disown you when you're 18, so I had to get baptized when I was 14. Ridiculous!!! Not exactly a "dedication" to Jehooba. I never said a "dedication" prayer, and I DID NOT give myself to an organization. I gave myself to God, therefore when I sin, I talk to God, not earthly men.
Now answer my questions, about Love, the prodigal son, and using ONLY the Bible, prove to me that Jesus picked your organization in 1919... Also, look up Brother Russell, and some of his teachings, especially in regards to pyramidology, and failed predictions on the end of the world.
I'm not HOSTILE, and I'm SURE AS HELL not your "bro"... As far as hypocrisy in Christendom, you better look at the witnesses too, plenty of hypocrites, some of the biggest are the ones that are running the show. All man made religions have flaws. I have to say though that my future FIL (Pastor) has more on the ball than most elders or CO's that I ever encountered, and lives a cleaner life than any elder. The man doesn't even drink or swear for goodness sake. You know how many drunk elders that I knew?
I'm now DONE with you.
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BEROEAN
Bluebreaker,
Not to sound insulting, but you come off with some real anger issues. I hope whatever troubles you gets resolved soon and you find peace and contentment.
Yes, Jesus taught about love. But, is it a blind love? No. Does Jesus love Satan and his demon horde? Does Jesus love Judas Iscariot? Does Jesus have love for those that he'll destroy during the Great Tribulation? What about his love for the Pharisees of his day? Love for wayward Isrealites; Korah? Dathan? Abihram? Love for Pharoah and his military force?
Again, you ask why am I on this board. Why do most ex-dubs on this board talk about how "witlesses" are led by the nose, can't think for themselves, and have the intellectual capacity of a gnat yet when a witness comes on this board to discuss topics ex-dubs want to run them off? Do ex-dubs prefer their rants go uncontested? I would think there wouldn't be so much gnashing of teeth when one of us shows up.
Unfortunately, your experience isn't uncommon. Constantly, there's reminders for Elders NOT to impose our personal views on others. Yet, as in your case, too many Elders still "suggest" or out right "tell" others what to do. No Elder has the authority to tell someone to take back their mate. 1 Cor. 7:10,11.
As far as your case with the JC, surely, you were smart enough to realize your written letter was the evidence needed to get dissed and the consequences of your impulsive actions. So, now you're living with the consequences of YOUR actions. Since you can use a BIG BOY voice, surely you can accept your BIG BOY actions, right? Be man about it and accept the choices YOU made. Don't expect others to compromise their lifestyle when you chose not to compromise yours for their sake.
Prodigal Son: Luke15:17-21 - The son "came to his senses", repented, and returned to his father with a humble attitude (make him one of the hired servants). Notice the steps taken by the son BEFORE his father tenderly kissed him and prepared a feast for him. What steps would you need to take?
1919: Matt.24:45 - Out of all of the religions "professing to be Christian" which one is the most progressive when it comes to understanding Bible doctrine? Hellfire? Immortality of the Soul? Trinity? Neutrality? Rapture? Earthly paradise? Jehovah being Supreme? Is the WTBTS perfect? Far from it. But, how does it's basic teachings stack up with your Pastors and other religions professing to follow Christ? You said it aptly, "all religions have flaws", but some more glaring flaws than others.
Russell: Studied it all. Sex with secretaries, scorned wife, cooky writings, white robes standing on the Brookly Bridge in 1914, ect. Just as you mentioned, I don't follow any man, I base my beliefs on what the Bible says.
Your Pastor/Father in-law doesn't drink or swear? Is that all it takes for you to trust someone?
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detective
So sad! I will never forget the way my husband's eyes welled up with tears when he read the RSVP from his parents. They had written "will not attend" out for us just in case we weren't clear on the rejection. He kept shaking his head saying how he thought his mother would go. Then again, it was a rough way to find out his grandmother had died months beforehand- he was looking for her to send her an invitation and couldn't find her at home. No need to share that news with your child, I guess. We've been married four years now after having dated for four years prior to the marriage. Never met the in-laws. Hope I never do.
I'm sorry that you are going through this.
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bluesbreaker59
Beroean,
I ask why you are here, because you're not allowed to talk to DF'd ones according to your CULT.
I have ZERO anger issues, just fed up with you, and the ridiculousness of the way outdated and CULT-ish practice of shunning.
I invite you to come over to Iowa, we'll sit down and chat. You bring a copy of the King James bible and so will I, and we'll both bring our common sense. No info from "mother" allowed.
Jesus taught love would be the underlying quality of his followers, how loving is it disfellowship someone? To cut them off from their family? Over a forced decision made when one was a minor? If I leave any church out there, and I have friends that I play sports with on Wed. nights, or go shoot pool with, they would STILL be my friends after I left the church. For example, I have friends that are Lutheran, Catholic, Methodist, Presbyterian, non-denominational, atheist, and satanist. NONE of them care where I go, or if I go, we're still friends regardless. If I left a CULT, then the other members of the CULT would be told not to have any contact with me. The witnesses do this same CULT practice of shunning and not allowing independent thought to be discussed. They also don't allow you to talk about past failed doctrines.
The example of the prodigal son, had the son going to god in prayer, not going to older men, and being forced to go back to 6 months to 1 year worth of meetings, correct? You know I'm right, face it. The governing body and elders use this repentance and JC meeting process to hold power. It is an UNBIBLICAL practice. The Bible only commands us to go to God in prayer, then it goes on to say we MAY go to the older men to pray over us, and annoint our heads with oil... The repentance and forgiveness takes place by our relationship with Christ and our belief that he is our savior. Not in the forgiveness of 2/3 old men in a back room.
I'd also invite you to check out some other churches Sunday services, go to a Methodist church or a Presbyterian church, listen to their pastors. They speak kind words, refreshing words, and renew you in the spirit of Christ.
As far as the comment, "trusting people only because they don't swear or drink". You're taking that too literally and you know it. I trust people only after having sufficient one on one time with them, talking with them, talking with others that know them, and observing their habits, and practices. There are 3 pastors I've come to know like this since leaving the Borg, and they all 3 are filled with joy, love, and peace, and the spirit of Christ. I've spent a very considerable amount of time with 2 of them, and they aren't the "money hungry" people that the WTBTS make them out to be. Frankly they both live very meager lives, dedicating many hours to their flock, their families, their ministry, and their communities. Both of them EXUDE love, whether or not you stick in large or small or NO contributions. They truly show the real spirit of Christ, IMHO.
Most elders I knew, were exasperated, too busy to be bothered. Most used their own opinions to counsel, most I knew were very HEAVY eaters, and overweight, which goes directly against the Bible. Lots of them also didn't do much in the way of service, and they all seemed to like to hear themselves talk. Many were also big drinkers. Every MS I knew were big drinkers, some were drunks, and would show up to the hall and do their parts after 6 or 7 beers. None of them did a single thing for their communities.
As far as Hellfire, the Trinity and the Immortality of the Soul, Rapture, Earthly paradise, neither of us has SEEN these things, because neither of us have died. So really, do you KNOW? No you don't. Its all theory until it happens. Much like many of the Dubs other failed prophecies. Anyone can make large grandiose predictions, the Dubs get the advantage of telling their members, when prophecy hasn't been fulfilled that they received NEW LIGHT!!!
When the CBS sports announcers predict a blowout in a football game, they have to defend their position, they don't get to receive NEW LIGHT, late in the 4th quarter, when they see their prediction is dead wrong.
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bluesbreaker59
In fact, in the account the prodigal son, ONLY repented to his father. There was nothing at all in there about going to elders, or older men, etc. He just begged on his father's forgiveness. THIS was the standard of repentance in the Bible, not what the Borg teaches. His father then gave him a fattened calf, and welcomed him back with opened arms. This is the kind of love that Christ taught.
The only reason the Borg teaches against associating with outsiders is because they want INFORMATION CONTROL, its that simple. They don't want anyone to see that people can actually be just fine without them, and they don't want people digging into their past. That is very evident by them updating their backlog of Watchtower bound volumes where there were "predictions". Also no mention of digging into early teachings of Russell or some of the koo-koo ideas of Rutherford. Then there is the constant flip flops on blood, "this generation", oral sex, organ transplants, etc. All that is "old light", and you're not allowed to question, otherwise, you're an apostate.