Any Former Elders? (page 3)

JT

Lisa says:

JT I am just about peeing in my (maternity) pants, LOL.
But you are right. That is some powerful medicine, to be convinced that GOD himself appointed you.

Lisa
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I just try to call a spade a spade

james

It is very difficult, and very confusing to be an elder. I'm sure there are some very serious power trips, but I think that most of the problem is that brothers are put in to this incedible vice of "if we DF he's going to feel bad, If we leave him in and we shouldn't Jehovah will remove his blessing."

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very good point- i have seen bro including myself have to decide between the Org and the person even thougn "Officiallly" they will say that is not true

but anyone who is honest knows that jw live by WRITTEN -- UNWRITTEN RULES

LIKE 4 DOOR CARS

JT

What a terrible bind for a sincere but ignorant...men with little or no qualifications.

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the above SUMS IT UP NICELY

GinnyTosken

hillary_step,

Recently JW's have now been allowed to privately pray for DF'd persons who seem to be trying to return to the clan. Can you think of anything more ludicrous, trying to instruct individuals in what to pray for!

I am interested in hearing more about this. I noticed a softening of attitude in the Watchtower of October 1, 2001 in an article called "How Can You Help A 'Prodigal' Child?" In the thread, "Please Help: Disfellowshipping--Scriptural View" ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=15500&page=2&site=3 ), I compared the Society's stance in 1981 (parents would not conduct a Bible study directly with their minor child) to their stance in the Prodigal article (it would be best to provide instruction and discipline during a private study of the Bible).

I also noticed how carefully they regulated prayer for disfellowshipped children:

In restoring one's relationship with Jehovah, prayer is a must. Of course, no one should "make request" concerning blatant sin that is clearly being practiced unrepentantly by any individual once associated with the Christian congregation. (1 John 5:16,17; Jeremiah 7:16-20; Hebrews 10:26, 27) Yet parents can ask Jehovah to give them wisdom to deal with the situation. (James 1:5) If a disfellowshipped youth gives evidence of repentance but does not have "freeness of speech toward God," the parents might pray that if God finds a basis for pardoning the child's error, that His will be done. (1 John 3:21) Hearing these prayers should help the youth to see Jehovah as a merciful God.*--Exodus 34:6,7; James 5:16
*Such prayers will not be offered publicly in behalf of a disfellowshipped minor at congregation meetings, as others may not be aware of the condition of the disfellowshipped person.--See The Watchtower, October 15, 1979, page 31.

How dare these men presume to tell anyone what they can and cannot pray about? If we can pray for our enemies and those persecuting us, why cannot we pray for prodigals? Prayer is one of the few private comforts left to Jehovah's Witneseses, and as a JW I craved a loving, understanding, heavenly father to whom I could pour out all of my concerns, hopes, and wishes, the one described at Hebrews 4:15, 16:

Let us, therefore, approach with freeness of speech to the throne of undeserved kindness, that we may obtain mercy and find undeserved kindness for help at the right time.

The Watchtower Society tries to encroach even upon the solace of private prayer. I loathe them for intruding upon this, making people feel that certain requests cannot be made, making them feel unworthy to approach God.

Like the Catholics they condemn, they quote 1 John 5:16,17 to distinguish between mortal and venial sins. To determine which is which, one would have to consult the elders' manual. After quoting Jeremiah about God's anger and rage, and Hebrews about God's fiery jealousy and vengeance, need we wonder why youths might need help to see Jehovah as a merciful God?

They dare close this limiting and regulating of prayer with James 5:16:

Therefore openly confess YOUR sins to one another and pray for one another, that YOU may get healed. A righteous man's supplication, when it is at work, has much force.

They later add that:

We can all look for opportunities to show "fellow feeling" and to be "tenderly compassionate" toward them.--1 Peter 3:8,9.

They refer not to the disfellowshipped youth, but to the family of the disfellowshipped youth. Yes, this is the Watchtower way to "initiate and nurture the healing process."

Ginny

TR

'Amazing' did a series on JC meetings a couple of months ago. Might want to check it out.

TR

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
—Edmund Burke

hillary_step

Ginny,

Hope you are well.

The WTS generally introduce 'new truths' by hinting at them in the WT, waiting to receive feedback and then a couple of months later fabricating a 'Questions From Readers' to deal with the issue in greater depth.

This time it is contained in the December 1st 2001 issue of the QFR.

After noting that those who are DF's are not neccessarily 'deserving od death', it makes this point:

'"Since the person is no longer in the congregation, any change in heart and attitude may be observed by those close to him, such as a marriage mate or family members. Those observing such changes may conclude that the transgressor did not commit a sin that incurs death. They may be moved to pray that he may draw strength from God's Word and that Jehovah will act toward the sinner in harmony with his will".

This is new thinking, albeit a miniscule shift in the right direction.

They further added that this is to be private praying lest others be offended by a public display of forgiveness!

Best to you - HS

Pureheart

Hey yall,

*** w81 9/15 31 If a Relative Is Disfellowshiped . . . ***
Should he die while disfellowshiped, arrangements for his funeral may be a problem. His Christian relatives may like to have had a talk at the Kingdom Hall, if that is the local custom. But that would not be fitting for a person expelled from the congregation. If he had been giving evidence of repentance and wanting God’s forgiveness, such as by ceasing to practice sin and by attending Christian meetings, some brother’s conscience might allow him to give a Bible talk at the funeral home or grave site. Such Biblical comments about the condition of the dead provide a witness to unbelievers or comfort to the relatives. However, if the disfellowshiped person had still been advocating false teachings or ungodly conduct, even such a talk would not be appropriate.—2 John 9-11.

How does the above statements coincide with the statement below?

(Romans 6:7) For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin.

Pureheart

Yerusalyim

a Light bulb? Holy COW! I'm all for Kink, etc but that sounds down right dangerous.

YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

GinnyTosken

hillary_step,

Thanks for the information.

This is a bit off topic, but I wonder if you or anyone else knows . . . How far in advance are The Watchtower and Awake! magazines written and printed? How much time do the guys at Brooklyn have to "stop the presses" if they change their mind on an issue and want to either edit or suppress an article?

Ginny

Satanus

the ENTIRE SYSTEM IS THE PROBLEM

So much for the myth that it's a perfect org made up of imperfect people.

SS

Any Former Elders?

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