Wow, thanks Leolaia! That is always a lot of work and your formatting is wonderful!
My brief comments are:
1. GENERATION. The WTS and you speak of various references regarding generation, rather than one clear concept of a generation that all the Jews certainly would have known of, and that is the famous "generation" that was said to have died in the wilderness. A specific generation of 40 years? When Christ said "This generation would not pass away until these things occur", would not they have reflected on that generation of 40 years who saw the great signs in Egypt who passed away in the wilderness? Why wouldn't that specific Jewish context of a "generation" not be considered among the other references of a generation? Furthermore, it should seem clear by his mentioning "this generation" would not pass away that a generation is a specific time rather than a general one. That is, in conjunction with these events and the "end of the system of things" he is limiting it to one "generation", the generic reference of which would parallel the generation of the Exodus that died in the wilderness, and thus 40 years, specifically.
2. 'END OF THE SYSTEM OF THINGS" Amazingly, again, this detailed discussion does not address the connected reference from Luke of the "APPOINTMENT TIMES OF THE NATIONS." The appointed times of the nations is a specific time period the Jews were aware of that the nations would be trampling Jerusalem. Daniel assigns some specific chronology to this, that is, the end of the trampling of Jerusalem is at the specific appointed time of 1290 days. "System of things" to the Jews were thus the current state of affairs that their nation was in politically. So when they were asking about the "end of the system things" they were asking about the end of the gentile times, the end of the appointed times of the nations. Why? Because when the Jewish state was reestablished again, that is when the messiah would soon arrive. That's the reference in context that Jesus is saying when he is speaking of the fig tree growing tender. The fig tree represents the state of Israel. So when the State of Israel is reestablished then the messiah would arrive soon after. So you have perfect continuity for the "end of the system of things" and the birth of the state of Israel as the fig tree in relation to when the messiah would arrive, with all these things happening within a generation of 40 years from the first sign. The first sign is a world war: "nation vs nation, kingdom vs kingdom." Luke predicts that Jerusalem would be destroyed and the Jews led into exile "until the appointed times of the nations is fulfilled." That was part of this speech. Thus the "appointed times of the nations" is relevant to both the "end of the system of things" and when one sees the Jews returning to their homeland and reestablishing their self rule. THAT is what the Jews were asking about. When will the gentile times end. The "end of the system of things" is synonymous with the end of the "appointed times of the nations." The messiah does not arrive until the fig tree starts to blossom again, meaning when the nation of Israel is established. Thus the second "coming" of the messiah does not occur until the end of the gentile times. That didn't happen until 1947 and thus "this generation" would be associated with that event. There is no problem having the context of "this generation" defined by the actual events that would happen during "this" generation in the context with the second coming, these signs, and the establishment of the independent state of Israel.
3. PAROUSIA. Interesting. "Para" means "around" or close to the presence or arrival of someone. But in ancient times and per the nice references given by Leolaia, these are very much in the context of ARRIVING at a certain place. When a dignitary arrived at a certain place, it was like a long procession where the dignitary is the last one in the procession that preceeds before him. So it was more than simply arriving in the city, but a public event with attending fanfare. So, for lack of better modern reference, a parousia is like a parade. That is the concept of what would be specifically attendant when the dignitary arrives in the city. You know, what other planned events would be happening? So they were asking, basically, "What will be in your arrival parade and procession?" What will accompany your arrival? It is often translated as "presence" but the root of the word is PARA + ARRIVAL/PRESENCE. That is, around-presence. In other words, what signs will SURROUND your presence/arrival?
When they combine that with "and the conclusion of the system of things" it is clear they understand that the end of the gentile times would be closely connected with the second coming. But since the chronology of the second coming is also provided in Daniel, they are not in doubt about WHEN the second coming will take place, only what OTHER signs "around" his arrival will be? The "conclusion of the system of things" is a specifically timed event in the scriptures and in Luke it specifies it as the end of the "appointed times of the nations."
So in general, the disciples knew that the state of Israel had to be set up first before the messiah arrives. Jesus confirmed this, that when they saw the fig tree starting to come alive again, they should know that the messiah was near at the doors. He simply gave them more details about what ELSE specifically would be happening leading up to the "end of the gentile times" beginning with a world war, food shortages, etc. But also a "great tribulation" prophesied by Daniel that would be TOTALLY OVER before the messiah arrives. "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days..." The "great tribulation" that was so bad the "days would be cut short" was the Holocaust.
4. LIGHTENING is discussed, and it's brightness. But not its temporariness. Lightening is indeed bright but it's just a flash. It's not a continuing light. So when referencing the "appearance" of the messiah being like lightening, it would require both a "bright" appearance but a short and momentary one. Lightening is MOMENTARY, not just bright.
CONCLUSION: This is a nicely done academic reference but it doesn't address CHRONOLOGY. Daniel uses chronology to specifically date the year of the second coming. Period. Theree prophecies specific to the same year: The "7 Times prophecy", the "70 weeks prophecy" and the "1335 days prophecy." The fact that Jesus in Luke mentions the "APPOINTED TIMES OF THE NATIONS" confirms they would have been aware of a specific chronology in connection with when the Jews would regain their homeland and understood generally, especially after Jesus notes it, that the messiah would arrive shortly after the state of Israel is established. In fact, when he mentions "this generation" it is sort of an assurance that the messiah would arrive very shortly after the state of Israel is set up, adding that this "generation" would not end until that happened. That is the generation that would see all these signs would not pass away until the messiah arrived, a generation of no more than 40 years. So it was a reassurance. That once you see the nation of Israel set up, then expect to see the messiah, he would be "near at the doors" and within 40 years from the first sign, which was a world war. In other words, after the state of Israel is finally set up and the "end of the system of things"/end of the gentile times occur, but not beyond a generation after the world war that is the first sign. In other words, the messiah would arrive sometime after 1948 but not beyond 1954, which is a "generation" after 1914, which marked WWI.
Leolaia doesn't address anything about the APPOINTED times of the nations or any of the CHRONOLOGY in Daniel which is attendant to these events and the "conclusion of the system of things", a specifically appointed-timed event in the minds of the Jews. So neither Leolaia or the WTS fully understand this passage. The KEY to understanding it, is understanding that the "conclusion of the system of things" in the minds of the Jews Jesus was talking to, was synonymous with the "end of the appointed times of the nations." The "system of things" in place that would end for them was the "gentiles times." The messiah would arrive very shortly after the gentile times ends and the state of Israel is set up, and all this would happen within a generation of 40 years from the first sign. Of course the state of Israel was indeed set up within 40 years of the generation of 1914-1954. The reference to a "generation" should thus be considered in the context of the generation of the Exodus who were to die first without seeing the promised land and that "generation" was specifically 40 years.
Thanks, Leolaia, for sharing your views on this.
There is one extra caveat here though, that I might add for you. And that is the SUBJECTIVE interpretation of Jesus' words who said that "some standing here would not see death"until the second coming. That is generally thought to mean that Christ would arrive before some alive in his day would not have died of normal old age. However, other scriptures confirm that there were two groups of Christians during that time, those who were expected to live down into the time of the second coming while others would die have to be resurrected, indicating clearly a time in the distant future. Paul uses the term "SURVIVE until the Lord's day" at 1 Thess 4:15. SURVIVE is appropriate for 1900 years. So it is a presumption that Jesus was limiting the time of his second coming by the natural generation of some who were with him when, in fact, some would be chosen to live down to our modern time is the alternative understanding. This is required, however, if the second coming is specifically linked with a specific chronology, which it is, that transcends 2520 years from the fall of Jerusalem. So there is no choice here as far as when the second coming will occur. But to harmonize this reference you have to extend the life of some of those with Jesus to over 1900 years into the future. Of course, that is precisely what happened in the case of John and Paul per the Bible.
JC
