Richard Dawkins Gets "Expelled" by Ben Stein!

by Perry 365 Replies latest watchtower scandals

hillary_step

Perry,
But Seratonin, I saw the interview.
Given your inability to process facts with reason, as your past posts have proved, why should this statement be of any value at all?
HS
BurnTheShips

FD:
His behaviour in this thread is very similar to one where he leapt to embrace a claim that Darwin was responsible for Nazism, not stopping for a moment to check the source, or even, one must assume, to mull over the absurdity of the claims in his mind.
FD, I did make the mistake of accepting the article whole-cloth and not checking attribution. And I admitted as much on that thread with a great deal of disgust after a second view and a full text search of Origin of the Species. However, to say that there was no causal connection between Darwinism and Nazi eugenics and racial theory is what is absurd. A misuse of science? Absolutely. Why? It was immoral. Was Darwin a Nazi? Of course not. Did his theory spur the idea that some humans were more evolved than others and that the less evolved should be deprecated for the good of the human race? Yes it did. The Nazis took Darwinism to what they saw as its logical end.
Believers often get told to own up to the mistakes of religion over the centuries.
Own up to your own!
Burn
BurnTheShips

Do not be too upset at the attitude of Burn The Ships. He likes to talk fast and furious but eventually comes to his senses. I am quite certain that he is subconciously terrified of losing his belief system, but is fighting the inevitable. ;)
Damning with faint praise?
I did promise you I would start a thread regarding the lunacy of some of the fundies on this board.
I will.
Burn
hillary_step

Burn,
Damning with faint praise?
Not damning, or praising. I am making a comment based on what I have read of your posts the past couple of months. The dichotomous nature of religious reasoning is one bought about by holding to believes that cannot be proved and yet being thoroughly convinced. This often spills over into every avenue of life. I will show you what I mean.
On another thread you chose to close a post with the comment, 'Burn, Who believes in Angels', or some such comment. On another thread when we were discussing world health statisitics and I posted World Health Organization figures that ranked the US 37th in the world rankings, you refused to accept the figure, one that is accepted by the US White House Administration as accurate, because it was drawn up by an organization that has affiliation with the UN. You fight against fact when it does not fit into your paradigm.
This sort of muddled and prejudicial thinking is what leads FunkyDerek to show puzzlement at how a person such as yourself, who obviously has a very good mind, can also express reasoning best suited to the tale end of a bottle of Scotch, or a Sunday sermon. Your repeated ad hominem attacks on Mr Dawkins, complete with silly pictures, is further evidence of this.
HS
BurnTheShips

You misunderstand or misinterpret me HS.
You fight against fact when it does not fit into your paradigm.
I fought the fact because it did not fit my personal experience. I have traveled to S America many times, and have family there. The UN stat does not jibe with my empirical experience.
This sort of muddled and prejudicial thinking is what leads FunkyDerek to show puzzlement at how a person such as yourself, who obviously has a very good mind, can also express reasoning best suited to the tale end of a bottle of Scotch, or a Sunday sermon. Your repeated ad hominem attacks on Mr Dawkins, complete with silly pictures, is further evidence of this.
Well, many of my posts are made while deep into a bottle of scotch, so what is your point? In vino veritas.
I despise the Dawkins for very good reasons, so why should I hide it?
Burn
funkyderek

BurnTheShips:
FD, I did make the mistake of accepting the article whole-cloth and not checking attribution. And I admitted as much on that thread with a great deal of disgust after a second view and a full text search of Origin of the Species.
And yet you still seem so eager to side with purveyors of such nonsense. It seems to be confirmation bias rather than outright dishonesty but you should still know better.
However, to say that there was no causal connection between Darwinism and Nazi eugenics and racial theory is what is absurd.
There's no significant connection. You could blame Gutenberg or Marconi for inventing ways for the Nazis to distribute their propaganda and you'd probably have more of a case. Eugenics is about artificially selecting the traits one desires in a population and eradicating the traits one does not desire, by selective breeding of those who exhibit desirable traits, and sterilisation and/or extermination of those who exhibit undesirable traits. This has been done for centuries by farmers and dog breeders and is so self-evident that to blame the existence of such knowledge in any way on Darwin is the very pinnacle of absurdity.
What Darwin discovered was that such selection can happen naturally, without any input from farmers or Nazis. The world we live in, its geography and weather, and parasites and predators have shaped our species without any conscious intent. What Darwin discovered was that nature could act like a eugenicist, not the reverse. Had he stuck to cataloguing barnacles and never discovered the sublime fact of natural selection, the Nazis would not have done a single thing differently.
Believers often get told to own up to the mistakes of religion over the centuries.

Own up to your own!
Whose mistakes am I supposed to own up to? Even if we accept the nonsense that Darwin was somehow responsible for the vile acts of the Nazis, or even if we were to believe (as you were all too eager to) that Darwin would have supported them, none of that alters the facts about the universe that Darwin discovered. He didn't create an ideology, he discovered a truth. Should we blame Galileo or Newton for the ballistic missiles the Nazis used, or the Wright brothers for their bombers? Knowledge about the universe can be put to all sorts of uses, it's perverse to blame those who discover the knowledge for the deeds of those who misuse it.
I despise the Dawkins for very good reasons, so why should I hide it?
Again with that strange turn of phrase, "the Dawkins". Will you ever reveal why you use it? And what are your "very good reasons" for despising the man? I can see that you find it an affront that he doesn't give your beliefs the respect you think they deserve, but why not challenge his reasoning if you find it faulty, rather than just sniping at him? By all means feel free to share your hatred, but do try to back it up with some facts.
BurnTheShips

It seems to be confirmation bias rather than outright dishonesty but you should still know better.
I'm only human after all. I can't help to chuckle when I see the Dawkins ridiculed a bit.
There's no significant connection. You could blame Gutenberg or Marconi for inventing ways for the Nazis to distribute their propaganda and you'd probably have more of a case.
Sure, and Nazi eugenics and racial ideology was based on radio communications and the printing press! Idiocy.
Eugenics is about artificially selecting the traits one desires in a population and eradicating the traits one does not desire, by selective breeding of those who exhibit desirable traits, and sterilisation and/or extermination of those who exhibit undesirable traits. This has been done for centuries by farmers and dog breeders and is so self-evident that to blame the existence of such knowledge in any way on Darwin is the very pinnacle of absurdity.
Yes, and these practicioners of animal husbandry did not typically think of humans as just another animal to be manipulated. Darwininan thought, --as either espoused by him or his successors-- reduced humans to just that, highly evolved animals. The Nazi emphasis on breeding, racial purity, and eliminating "defective" human beings came from taking Darwin’s theory seriously and applying it at the level of a society. Absolutely, Darwin himself did not take these measures, but the Nazi eugenecists and their ideological predecessors saw where all this was going and did bring it to bear in a practical manner and with hideous results.
Knowledge about the universe can be put to all sorts of uses, it's perverse to blame those who discover the knowledge for the deeds of those who misuse it.
Well, thats true of course. I do believe in evolution, but not that men are animals merely, but children of God.
That is a firewall.
Burn
hillary_step

Burn,
Your further illustrate my point.
I fought the fact because it did not fit my personal experience. I have traveled to S America many times, and have family there. The UN stat does not jibe with my empirical experience.
By your own admission, you are prepared to disagree with the World Health Organization and its tens of thousands of health specialists, The United Nations and all its resources and the White House Administration and all its resources, because during YOUR travels in South America YOU had a different experience from the rest of the World.
Can you not see that this is EXACTLY the point I am illustrating in my posts above regarding your prejudicial and muddled thinking when it disagrees with your own little paradigm. It is this sort of attitude that submerges you in the chaotic thinking of semi-education and so easily allows you to feel comfortable with ad hominem attacks rather than reasoned thinking.
You think with your heart Burn, which may make you an entertaining person, but it will never lead to a seasoned intellect and will more often than is comfortable see you bought down by far less active minds than your own.
HS
BurnTheShips

You think with your heart Burn, which may make you an entertaining person, but it will never lead to a seasoned intellect and will more often than is comfortable see you bought down by far less active minds than your own.
I am who I am, and it is better to lose with passion and the identity of the self than to "win" and lose one's soul. I am "better", because I take the harder path, because it is the right one.
Burn, who loves Burn.
SixofNine

:tousles BTS's hair: .... such a cutie. Now turn off the Oxygen channel and go do your homework!

Richard Dawkins Gets "Expelled" by Ben Stein!

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