Hi Aleman,
What are your views on the bible, and it's claimed infallibility?
What do you think this forums stands for?
My conscience won't allow me to believe in the bible because I know it's just another collection of literature written by men and women which does an awful lot of damage when it is taken as otherwise.
Conscience
by Aleman 26 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Eyes Open
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mrsjones5
The truth is that I feel obligated to speak out somewhere since I am not allowed to in my kingdom hall.
So you admit you come here because you have the freedom to speak your mind here...something you don't have at the kingdom hall...interesting.
You see I have been for a long time Disfellowed for X reason.
Now I'm curious about the "X" reason.
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Aleman
I know this forum stands for discussing the Jehova's Witness. but many if not all of you are out to get them one way or another. You people disscus how to take sheep out of Gods flock. you are out to turn sheep into wolves and you do it in several ways, direct, suddle, and making them think they are right but them turning it on them. You all are who Jesus described as wolves in sheep clothing.
I follow orders as a good little soilder I am. I may be dfwed but the truth is in my heart, burning as the the sun is and my love controls the heat. I have learned much about you the wicked and unfaithful people that think by being alone in this world is OK since you don't want anymore light to shine bright down on you, you all don't wish to eat the spiritual food God has provided to anyone at all for free.
I see it as who is telling the truth. Catholics? Mormons? Lutherans? Bautists? The only one religion who tells the truth is the one you all are against. Mabey because you still are living in the past like the middle age looser guys who still reenacts his high school years. Or mabey because or an accident that another human being did due to inperfection. What ever, the truth can be seen by the quality of love strangers have for their neighbors. These are the Jehovah's Witness around the whole world.
-Aleman
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VoidEater
My hope is that all will evade the clutches of men trying to control their lives, and take control and responsiblity for their lives.
I have not seen that the WTS has done any better job at loving, caring, teaching or helping people than any other religion, and has done a poorer job than some. At least the Catholics admitted their pedophile problems. The WTS still tries to cover theirs up.
If I had been raised in another faith and seen through the Wizard's curtain, I'd have something to say about that religion. But I grew up in this one, and so can speak to its shortcomings.
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Bring_the_Light
Aleman,
Welcome aboard. You'll find a lot of people have very deep frustrations they want to vent here. Please understand none of that is exactly an attack against YOU. Its their feelings about the Filfthful and Depraved Slavekeeper. A lot of us have been hurt, whether intentionally or unintentionally by the tight social controls JWs live in. Others are frustrated because questioning/free thought is suppressed and punished.
Myself, I'm just evil and a son of Satan, I'm the reason why they tell you not to talk to people like me. Eat the apple Aleman, you will be like god, and I am not lying.
Bring_the_Light
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Bring_the_Light
I'll help you out on this glorious path to damnation and destruction.
Why do you think the 9 very human white men (the governing body, the "faithful and discreet slave", "the society") that run this Circus know better than you do about what God wants from you? Are they inspired by god? are they prophets? whats the deal? what is it about being in this good old boys club that gives them "the light"?
Bring_the_Light
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Bring_the_Light
The Allegory of the Cave - from Platos Republic and c/o Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave
Plot
This drawing is highly simplified and should only be used as an aid for grasping the picture the allegory creates; it does not represent the entire allegory. Imagine prisoners who have been chained since their childhood deep inside a cave: not only are their arms and legs unmovable because of chains; their heads are chained in one direction as well so that their gaze is fixed on a wall.
Behind the prisoners is an enormous fire, and between the fire and the prisoners is a raised walkway, along which puppets of various animals, plants, and other things are moved along. The puppets cast shadows on the wall, and the prisoners watch these shadows. When one of the puppet-carriers speaks, an echo against the wall causes the prisoners to believe that the words come from the shadows.
The prisoners engage in what appears to us to be a game: naming the shapes as they come by. This, however, is the only reality that they know, even though they are seeing merely shadows of objects. They are thus conditioned to judge the quality of one another by their skill in quickly naming the shapes and dislike those who play poorly.
Suppose a prisoner is released and compelled to stand up and turn around. At that moment his eyes will be blinded by the sunlight coming into the cave from its entrance, and the shapes passing by will appear less real than their shadows.
The last object he would be able to see is the sun, which, in time, he would learn to see as the object that provides the seasons and the courses of the year, presides over all things in the visible region, and is in some way the cause of all these things that he has seen.
(This part of the allegory, incidentally, closely relates to Plato's metaphor of the sun which occurs near the end of The Republic, Book VI.) [1]
Once enlightened, so to speak, the freed prisoner would not want to return to the cave to free "his fellow bondsmen," but would be compelled to do so. Another problem lies in the other prisoners not wanting to be freed: descending back into the cave would require that the freed prisoner's eyes adjust again, and for a time, he would be one of the ones identifying shapes on the wall. His eyes would be swamped by the darkness, and would take time to become acclimated. Therefore, he would not be able to identify the shapes on the wall as well as the other prisoners, making it seem as if his being taken to the surface completely ruined his eyesight. (The Republic bk. VII, 516b-c; trans. Paul Shorey). [2]
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JCanon
Aleman, I understand your position and it is the position many people are in for various reasons. But one of those reasons is that some people do not have the intellectual capacity and background to research and reason, so when they face leaving the organization, they face leaving their only connection to Jehovah. So they stay and put up with the issues.
The fact of the matter is, though, the WTS is just one "slave" sent out where Christ is gathering sheep. It's the organization spoken of where Christ comes to separate the sheep from the goats because it is producing sheep and goats. So you don't need just the WTS organization to find Jehovah; allegedly, there are many other approved ones gathering. If Christ removes his sheep from the WTS who become the "little flock" then he has those gathering elsewhere that is a larger flock, "other sheep, not of this fold."
The KEY issue, though, is personal integrity to truth. If you allow yourself to water down the truth then you will have a watered down result of finding and pleasing Jehovah. If you hold onto the truth and insist on the truth, then you will be lead to the Christ.
So imagine the WTS as a broad road. You're in New York and your destination is Long Beach, California. Well going East on any number of roads for most of that trip will work. Only when you actually get close to your specific definition do you really need to pay attention to the signs. So the WTS is like that. It's okay to get you so far but at some point, those who find Jehovah must leave the broad road leading off intro destruction and go down the narrow path which is cramped and private.
In other words, the WTS was okay as an organization until Christ arrives. That is, the organization with the mixed sheep and goats was okay up to a point. The WTS is the field where fine seed was planted but then Satan came in with Pyramidology and Freemasonry and planted his seeds. Thus from the very beginning the organization was corrupted with that element. But the decision was made to gather sheep and wheat in this organization "until the harvest", that is, until the actual second coming. And then is when Christ would separate the sheep from the goats and the wheat from the weeds. He does that by exposing those who truly love truth and who are conscientious to the accurate knowledge. Those who love accurate knowledge respond. But those who have already decided not to insist on absolute truth or compromise the integrity of the Bible, will not respond, because it is not important for them to have absolute truth. Thus they are self-defined weeds. At that point the organization becomes dysfunctional for you because you are no longer using the organization to serve Jehovah. You have abandoned Jehovah and are just serving an organization that you have a comfort level with. You are doing what John in Revelation was warned against, and that is worshipping the angel that provides you with spiritual food. That is not to be done.
If you are faithful in little, you will be faithful in much. If you are unfaithful in little, you will be unfaithful in much. So basically, when you compromise your more important principles in the most important relationship you could have, which is with Jehovah, then you are essentially cutting your own throat. You are shortening your own lifeline.
THE CURRENT JW ORG PROBLEM: The current problem now with the WTS is that in 1992 Jehovah "disfellowshipped" the GB and threw them into spiritual darkness. So they are being punished. There is nothing they can do about it. Now those who are "awake" might see this quite clearly. When you compromise it is like closing your eyes, so you don't see it. You only see the superficially functioning organization, all the nice clean people and talk of a paradise earth. The WTS is like a whitewashed grave, so pretty on the outside but inside are full of dead men's bones and iniquities.
The organization can only go so far toward helping you in your relationship with Jehovah. If you want to improve that relationship and fervently seek Jehovah, then at some point you will have to psychologically, emotionally and doctrinally leave the WTS, whether or not you do that physically. The more loosely define your own relationship with Jehovah, the easier it is to be a witness. The more strictly you define your relationship with Jehovah and truth, the more difficult it is to be an active witness.
It was okay to be a witness up until 1992. Now its risky business. You have to ask yourself are you a "wheat" or "weed"? Are you "sheep" or "goat"? Jesus is not accepting any goats or weeds. If you want Jehovah and Christ you have to maintain your high standards of being wheat or sheep. Lower your standard to goat or weed and you will lose out, due to your own choice.
Now, it's unfortunate what has happened to the WTS, especially since, indeed, it had a special role in the end-times, but the fact is they have become the prophesied "evil slave" organization now and if the Bible is really true, there are at least 9 other sects out there that are approved by Jehovah. The only other public one I know of is Judaism. The rest are secretive societies. If I were going to rejoin a public religion I would feel comfortable being Jewish. But I don't need too, obviously, since I have found those secret organizations in "the wilderness". When you leave the broad road organization, you follow the narrow, secret path to the secret places in the wilderness where Christ is gathering his true sheep. But you won't ever get there by compromising the truth. Mixing a little lie with the truth, which is what you propose will not work with Jehovah.
You see the WTS as a very nice organization doing their best though they have some problems, only because you are not looking and your eyes are closed. If your eyes are open, you'll see what a dishonest and trecherous, Illuminti-run organization they are.
JC
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Aleman
So bring the light, If you are Satan's son, What kind of majic can you preform? Root majic? Black majic? Fire majic? wind majic? rune majic? If you are truly going the direction of Satan, How are you feeding your spirituality? I hear JCanon is gay since he protects the belief that Jesus was gay. He must be queer and part of the present sodom and gomorrah. I'm sure he satisfies his spirituality with gay sexual acts, after all it is said that sexual climax is reaching a spiritual high withyour partner. I'm just wondering.
-Aleman
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darth frosty
Good topic. I like the cave reference.
