I think my other post may have been removed for some reason. Let me say it again then. Mainstream Mormons are going to act like these "Renegade" Mormons have no connection whatsoever to the mainstream (read most popular) form of Mormonism. Yet, these so called renegades have a more honest interpretation of the book of Mormon. Fact, the book of Mormon by Joseph Smith reccommends polygamy. That's where they got the idea in the firt place. OK maybe the Bible started it all, but in any case, these Mormons are operating off of the same gold plates as mainstream morons. It wasn't until the mormon church was being indicted by federal government that they miraculously and suddenly and coincidentally got a "revelation" that they should no longer practice polygamy. How like JWs are the Morons? Lots! morons will condemn this so called splinter group even though they practiced the same exact teachings for most of their history. How hypocritical it is then for Morons to look down on this group as if they are innocent of the same charges. Moronism, whether a splinter group or mainstream with a member running for office, is a CULT. CCCCUUUULLLLTTTT!!!!!
Renegade Mormons - Abuse of Children- Broken Bones -Many Girls Pregnant
by flipper 86 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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Qcmbr
Book of Jacob - from the Book of Mormon
24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one cwife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their bhusbands. -
Warlock
WARLOCK- I don't believe you are getting the point I'm trying to make. Whether the call by the 16 year old girl in her particular instance was a hoax or not - the fact remains that the real truth of what was found out after that remains to be true. There are 60 percent of the 14 to 17 year old girls who are pregnant in the enclosed compound ! Did it happen by osmosis ? I think not ! They HAD to be impregnated by the adult Mormon males in the compound . 21 to 50 year olds ! Which is contributing to the delinquency of these minor girls. Believe me , if you know me well enough - I have stood up on behalf of people on the board who are falsely accused . I feel very strongly about false accusations !
If in time ALL of the accusations against these Mormons in Texas prove to be false - then I will make a retraction . But the majority of the evidence is very damning to them, it's obvious evidence, not conjecture.Okay, fine.
Then, go after and prosecute EVERY SINGLE ADULT MALE, NOT ONLY IN TEXAS, BUT IN THE WHOLE COUNTRY, WHO HAVE IMPREGNATED ANY MINOR GIRL.
Why pick and choose who you apply the law to?
Warlock
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Qcmbr
If the stats are true aren't 1 in 3 children abused? If that's that case why stop with the FLDS why not just remove the kids from entire city blocks - you'll undoubtably save lots of abuse victims?
In all honesty its easy to find easy condemnation of the FLDS because they are easy to objectify as 'other'. Let's say that the state passes a law that all JWs must lose their children as the blood law causes unecessary deaths - while they are at it maybe they could justify removing all former JWs children since they have 'proven' their lack of due care for their children despite recanting now. So all JW children get removed. Now think about how you'd feel if that was your children they were takig away despite the fact that in doing so many JW children would no longer be abused by JWs and fewer JW children would die when they needed blood. I think that many innocent FLDS families are going through utter hell now.
When I look at my beautiful children I shudder at the thought that I am only allowed them under sufferance from the state - that on the basis of any suspicion I can lose all contact with them following a knock on the door from the local authorities - that my children may be brought up within families other than mine based upon another's judgment.
I think the media is enjoying this and all I would urge is the caution to think that what is done to the FLDS today can be done to you tomorrow. Let's wait and see what the facts of the case are once the dust has settled and hope that we haven't watched another 'Iraq' style example of summary justice that looks good in the planning but causes disaster in the implimentation. -
flipper
WARLOCK- You can only pick and choose in this situation because there is an obvious flouting of the law here as they know who is doing it to these girls. Men in the compound. The Mormon women aren't protecting the children. They are covering over it out of fear of the men . I'm not saying to go after every single or married adult male in the country who made minor girls pregnant. You could never find them all. But they do know , and are in the process of investigating who are abusing these girls in the Mormon compound.
QCMBR- The authorities have to interview these children to see what's going on. You have many children with broken bones , and 60 percent of the girls pregnant. And that is a fact. Apparently there is enough of a danger to the children that the state felt it necessary to protect them. I'll repeat it again- If people's religious freedoms destroy individuals rights ( in this case the children ) then something has to be done by the authorities to protect the children -
Gill
Qcmbr - It is important to remember that our children are individuals in their own right and DO NOT BELONG TO US to do what we will with.
Children need respect and love and a right to freedom and only the state can protect them from certain parents who would deny them those rights.
Too many parents are bad!
Think of the Muslim countrys where girls are regularly murdered by their families for supposedly 'shaming them'.
Think of Indian countrys and China where baby girls are murdered en masses simply for being girls.
Children do NOT belong to their parents and the sooner we all accept this and realise that the family can be the breeding ground for every sort of evil that there is, the sooner we can accept that in countrys where governments step in to attempt to protect children the sooner we can all accept the respect that children really deserve.
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Qcmbr
Gill - I think I see what you are saying but my government does not know better than I do what my children need. I don't see children as an ownership issue but more of a responsibility issue. You see for me government is secondary to family - when governments fail or are overthrown families survive. Governments are merely an institution to help protect my family and to enshrine some rights that otherwise I would need to trust my sword to do. I do not believe that the government is greater than the family - ever.
Governments are notoriously bad at deciding what is best for people IMO (Communism and Facism come to mind as two recent examples of poor government choices). I will never agree with anyone that the government trumps my responsibility for my family. This is one of the reasons why I absolutely abhor state aid for people - the state should never be responsible for my ability to provide for myself merely for ensuring I have an opportunity and framework within which to conduct my economic and social life. -
flipper
SHAWN 10538- I agree with you that religions who tend to have cult like tendencies - Jehovah's Witnesses, scientologists, Mormons, and the Moonies all try to keep their people under control and secretly kept out of the outside world's influence . And it's especially dangerous when they exercise this control on children !
GILL - I agree with you. Children don't belong to parents who are not going to protect them and allow them to be abused !
QCMBR- Of course the government should not trump your rights as a parent, however if you see children as a responsibility issue of the parents , then may I ask you this question ? Then what do you suggest doing if you have parents who continually, incorrigibly, without changing their ways, abuse children ? Either themselves sexually abusing the children, or allowing the children to be abused by others? I ask you- What is your solution ? If you don't ever want any authority to step in for the sake of the children - then what do you propose ? I look forward to your answers -
Jim_TX
I think that what QCMBR is not adding into his 'mix' is religion. He seems to be in England.
Here in the U.S. where many people fled from Europe - for religious freedom - and which many of our laws were formed to protect the rights of the individual... well, it becomes a sticky issue - religious freedoms vs. state - or government rights.
Let's look at this with a different view. Think about the fella in Austria who kept his own daughter in the basement for 24 years. He had relations with her (as well as his own wife), and fathered several children by his own daughter. Personally, I find this repulsive.
He has been found out, and I suppose - arrested. But - let's say that he gets 'wise' and cries 'religious freedom'! Let's say that he says that the government is stepping on his religious freedoms by stepping in and upsetting his basement and freeing his daughter and those children that he fathered.
It is a similar type of conundrum.
These FLDS people are crying 'foul' - that the government has and is stepping on their religious freedoms.
Now... think of the people who followed another individual - based upon religion. Jim Jones.
I dunno... I think that the local Texas government is right in stepping in - I just think that they need to step very carefully - and take things carefully... as they appear to be doing. Otherwise, the FLDS will slip through their fingers - lock themselves up - again - in their compound - and the governments won't be able to touch them - all in the name of religion - and religious freedom.
Regards,
Jim TX -
5go
Then, go after and prosecute EVERY SINGLE ADULT MALE, NOT ONLY IN TEXAS, BUT IN THE WHOLE COUNTRY, WHO HAVE IMPREGNATED ANY MINOR GIRL.
They do prosecute every one they catch. They caught these sick bastards red handed, so they will pay too.