by BBOARD 45 Replies latest jw friends
Christmas is a holiday tradition that JW's won't touch with a ten foot pole.
A camping trip is a vacation.
In the USA, we call the religious observances holidays while the trips out of town for fun are vacations, not holidays. If we say we are going on holiday here, we would face a JC the day we returned.
That's not a strawman arguement it's a fact. It's also a fact that you can be the best parent in the world, teach them all the right and wrong things and they will grow up and live their life the way they want.
My point is that raising children is trial and error. Everything does not work for every child, there is no book on how to raise them and as parents we will make mistakes. But in the end it doesn't take the bible or a man made organization to successfully raise your children. I you can't teach your kids your moral values, right from wrong, common sense they why do you keep having them is my question. Do you really thing that just because you raise them as JW's they won't experiement with drugs, sex or any other evil you can imagine? That's really naive for you to think that way because the biggest drug addicts and the most sexually active teens that I grew up with were JW's.
We are talking about our kids not government. The government is filled with grown people some good and some bad, I no more than you can dictate to them what to or not to do.
I'm still wondering why you are here and have not skipped your JW butt back to the KH already. That's really what you want so go.
nj
Hmmmmm
Good question. I was raised a JW. My husband converted when he was 17. Maybe we could do a study on who fairs better? After being out a year it has definately been hard for both of us, but in different ways.
He still had family, as none of his ever converted. I have no fleshy family left. We both lost lifetime friends, but I lost ALL of mine, and he has one or two remaining(he was in a while). The transition mentally has been the most telling. The reprograming for me has been much more extensive, and he has helped me alot, which he actually did before we got out, here and there.
We both though have done well because we found a new road. Makes leaving the ugly one behind easier.
CL
arhhh whitedove lol culteral misunderstanding can you tell i've never been to america hehe
Personally even as a non-witness I wouldn't celebrate Christmas anyway, I need a stronger arguement than "Everyone else does it and it's a neat holiday"
Christmas is becoming too religious for me to touch now, even as an ex-witness, and to answer you next question how? especially when jesus as taken a backbench to the fictitious santa, it feels like it is worshiped now in a real way probably one of the few holidays that has a real worshipful feel in how people describe it when religions are becoming less important to people, you cannot knock "The santa" and the right of children to believe a strange bearded man give them presents rather than loving hardworking parents.
Other than that, holidays are just lights and show, I can do parties a young child would enjoy just as much with cake and presents for all, games and laughter without having it be about something I don't believe in.
My wife and I - some of you know she's still a JW, though a "liberal" one - touched on this topic a while back. She told me of how, though it has been flawed, the JW's to her were speaking "truth". I told her I thought it because she was lonely and friendless in a new city with a new baby when they knocked on the door of her apartment. She was trying to understand how I could leave it all - permanently. I told her that as I was raised a witness it was all I'd ever known. For her, she made an informed choice as an adult. She said she could see my reasoning.
I think it really depends on the individual. I tell my mom all the time that I've not forgotten the morals I was taught as a kid and the fact that those came from the bible. However, I also tell her that it isn't necessary for me to believe that the bible is the word of god or that there even is a god. There were plenty of other works out there to serve as a sort of "moral compass" to teach children from. I guess I don't really think much about the end. I have another friend that has been DF for years. We fairly recently came back into contact with one another. She says she sometimes is fearfull for herself and her children, but so far she still feels it isn't worth the price she'd pay by going back "in".
As I said, it all depends on the individual. Some people seem to need an anchor, wether it is some form of "high control" religion or other, and some don't. I like to think of myself in the latter category.
If you don't feel you have the capabilities to be a good parent and teach your children right from wrong, how to treat others, not to use drug or have sex in the teens the you shouldn't have had children
My point is that raising children is trial and error. Everything does not work for every child, there is no book on how to raise them and as parents we will make mistakes. But in the end it doesn't take the bible or a man made organization to successfully raise your children. I you can't teach your kids your moral values, right from wrong, common sense they why do you keep having them is my question.
lol these two statements come as slightly contradictory nj
My experience is children are mirrors reflecting what is around them good and bad, give them a good morale foundation yes that helps but give them alternate friends instead of the druggies etc and that helps too.
Your right nothing can protect your kids completely but in my experience offering alternatives helps, as well as a morality with a real base not just opinion based, because what parent can have any credibility with a child saying for example "don't have sex till your older" if that parent themselves is going out and having sex etc with multiple partners as is the norm,
Children are quick to pick up hypocracy if you are saying "Do as i say not as I do" but even if you can teach morals and be a good example you can't stop the child thinking "they are old they don't understand what it's like now"
That's really naive for you to think that way because the biggest drug addicts and the most sexually active teens that I grew up with were JW's.
Did they get drawn into prostitution, get raped, die from glue-sniffing/drugs get shoot/stab each other? well the ones I see on the outside have your lot beat. I really argue that statement that in some way the JW's make kids more likely to do this,
JW's as with any moral religion provides an alternative social group where normally there isn't one which has got to be better than the usual, do it or don't do it choice.
As for your last statement i reserve the right to be on here and question this forum as much as you guys question JW's.
these two statements come as slightly contradictory nj
Not contradictory at all.
My experience is children are mirrors reflecting what is around them give them a good morale foundation yes that helps but give them alternate friends to the druggies etc and that helps too.
Your right nothing can protect your kids completely but in my experience offering alternatives helps, as well as a morality with a real base not just opinion based, because what parent can have any credibility with a child saying for example "don't have sex till your older" if that parent themselves is going out and having sex etc with multiple partners as is the norm, Children are quick to pick up hypocracy if you are saying "Do as i say not as I do" but even if you can teach morals and be a good example you can't stop the child thinking "they are old they don't understand what it's like now"
I've never once said to my children, do or don't do this because I said so. Neither did I say you can't because the JW's or the bible says so. What I did tell them is that if you do this there is a great possiblility that the consequence will be this. Now do you want this particular consequence or not? With sex or even drugs, my example was I did such and such and I think you would be better off not doing it, but if you so choose to experiement with it, here are the consequences. I would rather you wait to have sex until you are at least 18, but if you choose to experiment here is how you protect yourself from unwanted pregnancies and disease.
The best way to teach our children in my opinion is by real life experience. If my child ask me a question about sex, drugs or anything else, if I can relate through personal experience then I do. If I've never done it or experienced it we sit down and search the topic until he's satisified with an answer.
To me saying "the bible tells us not to do this" or Jehooba will not bless you or you will die at the big A" is not a good answer. You might as well say because I said so, and as you stated already that's not good enough. So who's being contraditory now?
nj
That's really naive for you to think that way because the biggest drug addicts and the most sexually active teens that I grew up with were JW's.
Did they get drawn into prostitution, get raped, die from glue-sniffing/drugs get shoot/stab each other? well the ones I see on the outside have your lot beat. I really argue that statement that in some way the JW's make kids more likely to do this,
I don't know I didn't hang around them and I didn't hang out with the JW's long enough to find out. I do know that 1 girl has 8 children by 6 different me and has been df'd and reinstated so many times she probably has lost count. Still trying to be a JW and live a double life, by the all her babies daddies are JW's and none of them are around.
JW's as with any moral religion provides an alternative social group where normally there isn't one which has got to be better than the usual, do it or don't do it choice.
Yeah but the JW's don't give you a simple do it or don't do it. For many if you choose the later you loose your entire support system.
nj
Reniaa,
Ok, I understand some of your "points" but let me break some things down for you.
1. I'm sorry you've had some "bad experiences" in "the world"
2. I'm sorry you've had an alcoholic husband, and also one that was too "into himself"
3. When raising kids, you don't need to threaten them with being destroyed by some unloving Jehooba, YOU teach them values, by living life in a manner in which you see fit. YOU go over what you expect from them. Having faith only works to re-enforce this.
4. I saw MANY young JW's get heavy into drugs, and having unwanted babies, so its on both sides of the fence
5. Do you want your kids around all those molesters that the Borg protects? I know I want NO PART of that. There are sickos on BOTH sides of the fence. But the ones "in the world" get thrown in prison, not protected by a CULT.
Personally, and you can disagree with me all you want, BUT, there are "warning signs" in relationships, and there are good people IN and OUT of the "TROOF". If you haven't found the good people outside of the Borg then you are NOT trying hard enough. I have a small group of great friends, and we all have pretty much the same morals, and values. I was born into the cult, and by MY OWN KNOWLEDGE and MY OWN CHOICES, managed to never do drugs, or have many partners, or STDs. I was raised by a loving parent, and I paid alot of attention to the outside world. I didn't have lots of strict supervision at home, so I was allowed to make my own choices on friends, music, and the like. i also went to college, and LOVED IT.
I knew the RISKS of doing drugs, and engaging in unprotected relations. So I never did either. I was then FORCED to get married to a dub at 18, she was a complete loser, and she was both verbally and physically abusive to me, and oh BTW, she also cheated on me for a long time... So there is good and bad on BOTH sides of the fence.
I mentally checked out of the Borg at about 16 or so, and came back for a while at 21, then checked out mentally and physically at 25. All the while, I was making friends IN and OUT of the Borg. Using MY JUDGEMENT of good and bad people. I can honestly say I have MANY honest, good, caring friends, that would do anything for me. I also have a wonderful woman in my life that I love very deeply, and she is everything I ever dreamed of in a woman.
NOW, my witness family on the other hand shuns me, and won't speak to me or meet my girlfriend. They constantly are thinking about Armageddon and being destroyed. They don't have a whole lot of fun, and their lives are for the most part pathetic. They work, they go to meetings, and that's it. Some try to live a little like "worldly people" but they always fail, or get held back by their brainwashed Dub tendencies.
Its really very simple, life that is. You as an adult have choices to make. You put yourself in certain situations, and then try to make the best of those situations by making GOOD choices. Your life to me, from what I've read on here, you need to make better choices. If someone is a creep, a druggie, an alcoholic, etc., you GET THEM OUT OF YOUR LIFE!!! If you find you are seeing TOO MANY of these people, CHANGE WHERE YOU HANG OUT!!! Really its not hard. I mean if you hang out in a seedy neighborhood bar (pub), then you probably won't meet the best people. Maybe ask co-workers out for drinks? Join a social club? Join a church? Etc. DO SOMETHING!!! There is an old saying that I heard in marketing class, and it applies here:
"NOTHING HAPPENS UNTIL SOMEONE SELLS SOMETHING"
Basically your life will ALWAYS be terrible if you sit around and dwell on all the bad, and don't do anything to make it any better. You're forgetting about some of the badness that goes along with being a Dub. Remember all the meetings? Service? Mind-Control? Weird, looney people? Assemblies? The constant cry for MORE MONEY?? How bout constantly living a life in fear of Armageddon?
I'm a bad parent because i want to give my children a morality with a biblical base
Yes
I'm a bad parent because i want to give my children a morality with a "because i say so base"?
Yes, both scenarios are not good. Good morality needs no authoritative 'base' Good teaching is not an appeal to authority. Good morality is not an appeal to authority.
Yes you are right. It is easier to leave if you weren't raised in the religion.
I fit in this category and am grateful I was raised as a Catholic. I had my holidays, freedom, education and job. So, it is not so hard for me to leave the religion. Thankfully, I have no family in the religion. As for making an 'informed' choice as an adult, I have to disagree because the religion hid its past and its changed teachings.
There was no internet back in the day like there is now. So I feel I was deceived. I liken it to a man who marries a woman and finds out that not only is she not a virgin, she is actually a man who underwent a sex change. So the deceived husband wants out. Sorry if this analogy offends anybody, but this is what I compare it to. But, I am glad I know the truth now.
LHG
